[MD] Intellect in the Bible?

[Arlo Bensinger]

[John]
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat 
of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

[Arlo]
Just a scare tactic. It is the serpent who reveals the "truth". "You 
will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows 
that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be 
like God, knowing good and evil".

The serpent itself is likely drawn from more ancient fertility myths, 
where serpents were often used to represent birth and regeneration.

And so they ate of the tree. "Then the eyes of both of them were 
opened, and they realized they were naked."

They gained, in becoming "like God", the power to create life; to reproduce.

"And the Lord God said, 'The man has now become like one of us, 
knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand 
and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

Why would God worry, if this was only about "knowing good and evil", 
that man may also achieve immortality? Was he worried about 
competition? This passage only makes sense when the knowledge 
referred to is "life creation". Immortal beings reproducing like 
bunnies is just a bad idea, and God was right to fear it.

Also, if it is just about "knowing good and evil", why would God 
threaten his creations with death? Why we this alone impart such 
drastic excommunication? I mean, is this not what God *wants*? That 
we know the difference between good and evil? Why is this a bad 
thing, something he fears? The answer is that he does not, what he 
fears is what is given away by their first act with their newfound 
knowledge... they become "like God", they can "make life".

I could accept the argument that such mytho-esoteric ponderings of 
these symbols reveals the presence of an "intellectual level" 
historically, although there is also no historical doubt that such 
patterns held no dominance over socio-exoteric dogma as understood 
and preached and implemented by those both in power and supportive of 
that power. Even if we agree, with Pirsig, that the ancient Greek 
period marks the usurping of dominance by the intellectual level, 
there could be intellectual patterns in existence for quite some time 
beforehand. I, at least, would not say that no intellectual patterns 
preceded ancient Greece, but that during that period they achieved ascendency.

Taking my original suggestion, to view "intellectual patterns" as the 
emergent result of activity that examines symbols as 
"things-in-themselves", one could make a strong argument that 
esotericism represents an historical thread by which we can trace the 
earliest examples of this form of activity up to the ascendency this 
achieved with the Greeks.

I would argue, in support of this, that the "self-referentiality" 
inherent in intellectual-level activity, the unavoidable paradox, the 
inescapable incompleteness, is also KEY to ALL esoteric thought 
throughout history. That is, a hallmark of esoteric reads is the 
everpresent but unseeable Void, the "all this is just an analogy" 
understanding put forth by Pirsig.











At 11:26 AM 11/3/2009, you wrote:
>Hey Arlo,
>
>My read on the fruit representing objectivism isn't a modern read, it's what
>the text actually says...
>
>But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it:
>for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
>
>"knowledge of value (good and evil)" = "definition of Quality"
>
>God and Pirsig both say, "no"
>
>That's not a modern reading.  That's just what it says with no construing
>needed.
>
>Although Pirsig doesn't threaten anyone, he does equate SOM with the "death
>force".
>
>
>
>On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Arlo Bensinger <ajb102 at psu.edu> wrote:
>
> > [John]
> > Sorry, RMP, wrong.
> >
> > [Arlo]
> > Actually, I think Pirsig has this one right. There are, to be sure,
> > intellectual-responses to the social patterns of "religion", of 
> which Joseph
> > Campbell stands out for me. I think you are confusing the idea of 
> "intellect
> > as being able to think" and what Pirsig terms the intellectual level.
> > Clearly, humans being "thought" tens of thousands of years before. This
> > social-mediation of language-symbols is, I agree, the pre-eminent
> > distinction between "man" and other biological creatures (although I do
> > think, in disagreement with Pirsig that other biological creatures do
> > evidence some forms of social-symbolic mediation, but none even 
> close to the
> > level of complexity witnessed in human activity).
> >
> > Your "read" of the Garden of Eden is a modern intellectual response to
> > interpreting the social-mythological symbols earlier man had created. But
> > where you see it representing an adoption of Objectivism, I'd argue the
> > story is an analog to sexual reproduction. In Eden, they are told 
> not to eat
> > of two trees, the Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life. They eat of the
> > tree of knowledge and the first thing they "understand" is sexual
> > reproduction, they see their sexual organs as a means to reproduce, or more
> > poetically "to create life". God expels them before they can eat 
> of the tree
> > of life, which would grant immortality. Indeed, interesting to consider is
> > that they are told the reason God has forbidden them from eating is that he
> > knows doing so will make Adam and Eve "like God"... immortal and able to
> > create life. It may also allude to the need for mortality in a reproductive
> > world, lest the world become in short order so overcrowded as to be "hell".
> > But this type of intellectual reconsideration of the social symbols used by
> > earlier man to mediate his daily activity is not contained within 
> the Bible,
> > any more than the tally marks on bones indicating an awareness of 
> "quantity"
> > meant that those who carved such marks were thinking mathematically.
> >
> >
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