[MD] QRE: The 4th. level's two interpretations. Par

[Steven Peterson]

Hi Bo,


> Bo before:
>> > Was it intellect coming into play when a Stone Age man asked: "Why
>> > don't the bison come to our hunting grounds anymore?
>
> Steve:
>> If intellectual patterns did not exist at this time, then this is not
>> the sort of thing that a stone age man would ever say. "Why?" was not
>> in their repertoire of responses to their environment.

Bo:
> What do you know about paleolithic language, me neither for that
> matter, but that it had some term indicating "why" I'm fairly sure. You
> sounded as if the word "why" was some sesam -sesam that would
> trigger "intellect" whenever or wherever and that's plain nonsense.


Steve:
I don't know whether Stone Age man could provide a rationale for his
behavior or not. Pirsig's comments suggest that he couldn't--that his
behavior that was not instinctual (biologically latched through DNA)
was ritual behavior (socially latched through unconscious copying of
behavior). But if he could provide such rationale, doing so would be
participating in intellectual patterns. The quality of said rationales
would be intellectual quality rather than social or biological
quality.

Bo:
> The Bison surely had its quirks and did not always follow the seasonal
> treks so the hunters surely often had to wonder why it was missing,
> and he may also have asked the squaw WHY she refused his
> advances, and she replied: BECAUSE you did not bring back any
> bison. You slander the ancient people (that Pirsig warns against) by
> talking about "ritual behavior" barely above instincts.

Steve:
If this conversation took place, then the "squaw" was particating in
rudimentary intellectual patterns.

Bo quotes:
> Pirsig says in ZAMM:
>
>    But before the Greek philosophers arrived on the scene, for a
>    period of at least five times all our recorded history since the
>    Greek philosophers, there existed civilizations in an advanced
>    state of development. They had villages and cities, vehicles,
>    houses, marketplaces, bounded fields, agricultural implements
>    and domestic animals, and led a life quite as rich and varied as
>    that in most rural areas of the world today. And like people in
>    those areas today they saw no reason to write it all down, or if
>    they did, they wrote it on materials that have never been found.
>    Thus we know nothing about them. The ``Dark Ages'' were
>    merely the resumption of a natural way of life that had been
>    momentarily interrupted by the Greeks. :
>
> "..they led a life as rich and varied  as of the world today, i.e: Ancient
> people were as INTELLIGENT as you and me  ..no great feat.

Steve:
If what he means by "intelligent" is that they could provide high
quality rationales for their behavior, then they participated in
intellectual patterns to some extent.

Best,
Steve