[MD] Emotions

[MarshaV]

Hi John,

"Of course it's an analogy. Everything is an analogy."   
   (RMP, ZMM) 

Marsha


-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of John Carl
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:31 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Emotions

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Andre Broersen
<andrebroersen at gmail.com>wrote:

> John:
> A biological response to what?
>
> Andre:
> Quality.
>


John anew:

Emotion is the response to quality.  Always.  If I experience bad quality, I
feel negative emotion. If I experience good quality, I simultaneously
experience a positive emotion.  How I react according to these emotions is
governed (hopefully) by my reason.  I experience emotion biologically (when
Pirsig posited heart, head and hands, the heart is the perceived seat of
emotion, the head the seat of reason and the hands the seat of action) which
is an important adaptation.  If I did not feel fear biologically, then my
head might not tell my hands to act in congruence with increasing my
biological safety.

Quality influences the biological organism through the mechanism of
experienced emotion.

Saying emotions are biological in origin is true to the extent that reason
and intellect are biological in origin, but basically meaningless. Like
saying "Its just an analogy."  Or "It's only in your head".    When
everything is an analogy and everything is in your head and everything is
rooted in biology its equally meaningless to make a specific statement about
part of the generalized whole.

Emotions evolve from social relationship and they arise in response to some
social pattern.    Somebody pointed out that emotions can be directed
against inorganic levels- but this is foolishness.  It's foolish to throw
your golf club into the water hazard when you miff, or your hammer through a
window when you smash your thumb.  Even these emotional reactions are social
in a sense because if you ask the perp who he's mad at, he'll usually admit
he's mad at himself.


In fact, for any emotion to make sense, there has to be interest or caring.
 I don't experience emotionality over anything that I don't care about.
 This points to the importance of understanding emotion in the MoQ and
that's why I wish Phaedrus and the Chairman had been able to complete
Plato's  dialogue.


John:
> If emotions are biological responses, then where's the
> emotion in an amoeba?
>
> Andre:
> Expressed through its withdrawal from a very low quality situation.
>


I don't equate simple stimulus/response reaction to emotion.  I don't see
emotionality in lizards, snakes, birds or fish.  Perhaps there is some
rudimentary feelings associated with their biologically rooted reactions,
but as I understand emotions in myself, I only see in other mammals.



> John:
> The biological reaction to an emotion is not the cause of the emotion,
it's
> the effect of the emotion.
>
> Andre:
> The emotion is the reaction.
>


What you do with your hands is the reaction to what you think in your head
you should do with the feeling in your heart.



> John:
> So, do the difference in Chinese emotional reaction arise from their
> differing biology?  Or is it because they have a different socialization?
>
> Andre:
> To the former postulate: No.
> They do have different ways of assigning meaning and especially
> (Confucian) appropriateness to the expression of emotions as a
> response to Quality.
>
>
This is because emotion is not generated by biology - its generated by
social consciousness of self/other with a slant toward "self" protection.

This Self, as everybody knows and if they don't can ask Bo who will tell
them for the umpteenth time, is not a biological phenom it is a
social/intellectual phenom.


John;
> Here I stand, I can do no other.
>
> John the heretic
>
> Andre:
> And much loved (strong dynamic biological emotion...disturbs all of
> your static patterns...can wipe you off your feet) on this MD ( I
> think???)


Warm fuzzy words which makes my heart glow and makes my brain send little
tappets of fingered keystrokes back at you with warmest regards.
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