[MD] MOQ and the Future: An Inquiry into Usefulness

[markhsmit at aol.com]

Hi Platt, Marsha,

Yes, the why question.  This can only be answered though our
prism of experience.  That there must be a reason, is begging
the question as to why must there be a reason?  It is much easier
to stick to the what side of things.  Quality is what we seem to
experience.

Marsha,
I am continually surprised by you anti-theism position.  Yet
you believe in Quality.  I suppose if theism denotes the presence
of a supreme being, then I get your point.  But what if it is
something entirely different from that.  What if these religions
are only providing a metaphor for what is going on?

Christ spoke of a father in heaven.  What if what he meant
was: the feeling he got was similar to that of a loving father?
We all have different fathers, so its hard to relate, but it was
his attempt to relay his mystical experience (then abused by
the rising Church).  You may claim that you are athiest, but
can you deny that the feeling of God does exist?  I believe
all you can deny is that you have never had it.

Just my opinion of course, and I am no God worshiper in the
traditional sense.

Cheers,
Willblake2


-----Original Message-----
From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Sent: Mon, Nov 16, 2009 5:31 am
Subject: Re: [MD] MOQ and the Future: An Inquiry into Usefulness




i Platt,
Not spooked, revolted.  Thank goodness the MoQ is anti-theistic...      

arsha     

-----Original Message-----
rom: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of
lattholden at gmail.com
ent: Monday, November 16, 2009 8:28 AM
o: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
ubject: Re: [MD] MOQ and the Future: An Inquiry into Usefulness
Hi Bo, Mark, All:
Seems to me that by saying the universe emerged with Quality that 
ou've ducked the question, "Why did the universe emerge?"  Was it, 
Oops, suddenly a universe appeared" as Arlo believes? Or did it turn 
p because it was good to do so as the MOQ suggests? Pirsig says that 
uality is "the source of all things." To me that includes the universe 
nd existence as we know it. 
There's no reason to spooked by anyone's charges of theism. The 
reative power of Quality can be viewed as a perfectly natural 
henomenon. Just because it may not fall into the scientist's definition of 
atural -- namely that which can be measured and/or reproduced by 
xperiment -- doesn't mean Quality is a God of religious faith. It could 
imply be an intrinsic principle of rightness.
Let's not be limited in our thinking by the scientific SOM worldview. Isn't 
hat the underlying message of the MOQ? Or as Hamlet put it, "There 
re more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your 
hilosophy."
Looking forward to your comments.
Regards,
latt  


n 16 Nov 2009 at 10:04, skutvik at online.no wrote:
> Hello Marksmit
 
 15 Nov. you wrote (to Arlo):
 
 > The universe did not emerge in response to Quality, the
 > universe emerged with Quality (imo).  In this way one
 > does not give Quality God-like powers.  This is similar
 > to the notion of emergence of everything from Tao.  The
 > only difference is that we believe that we understand the
 > direction that is emergence with Quality is going.
 
 "The universe emerged WITH Quality"!  
 
 This sounds just RIGHT and it fits my "MOQ the meta-level that 
 contains the Quality System" that so many protest or don't understand. 
 Even Pirsig spoils his great achievement by the "Quality/MOQ" 
 statement which gives Quality a God-like position and the DQ/SQ just 
 one way of interpreting his divine reality. The DQ/SQ universe 
 emerged with the MOQ! This also fits Phaedrus Newton Gravity 
 parable that no one in this discussion understands or wants to touch ... 
 with a poker. Forget all my condescending "newbie" talk, the true 
 understanding may come from the most unsuspected directions.
 
 Bodvar        
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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