[MD] (Fwd) Re: British Emergentism

[skutvik at online.no]

Marsha, Andre, All  

24 Nov. Marsha said:

> What is the M in MoQ and SOM represent? 't it represent a formal
> model of reality?  Most people do not have an acknowledged
> metaphysics. Philosophers of varying stripes look for a model of
> reality, but the model is quite separate from the experience.  So
> when I talk about the MoQ it is as a model.  So when you suggest we
> are 'bathing in Quality', that's a poetic description of the
> experience, and I quite agree with it as a poetic description.  

I agree with " ... most people do not have an acknowledged 
metaphysics". This is what Pirsig meant by "..no one can avoid 
metaphysics" They live inside a system so huge that no one knows it
(the fish and sea metaphor) more like ancient people were Q-socialists
and modern people are "Q-intellectuals" (SOM-ists) without knowing it.
In this context each level can be regarded a metaphysics in a most
extended context.

You also correctly say "...Philosophers of varying stripes ...etc" 
Because philosophy emerged as part and parcel of SOM (or intellect) 
it is automatically regarded a model of reality, or if called 
"metaphysics" regarded as the Aristotelian kind which is the same 
"model".  

But then you speak about the MOQ as a model too. I'm more with 
Andre here, according to the level-as-metaphysics assertion, the
reason that the Aretê epoch (the era when social value ruled) looked
so tempting to Phaedrus was that it was before the subject/object
(model/reality) divide. And the MOQ's very objective is to return to a
holistic existence on a higher level (of the spiral).

And now I want to introduce the Newton Gravity talk again because it
contains the first outline of Phaedrus' quest. You all know how it
goes, P's claim is that things falling to the ground was dynamic and
did not "stabilize" as gravitation until Newton, i.e. gravity was
created by Newton!! Not as an explanation of something - this is SOM
and looks obvious in its hindsight - but as a new "gravity reality".

Phaedrus' original task was of returning to a pre-SOM metaphysics 
which is no  no "model", but reality itself  in the old Aretê sense. Andre 
called it "living the MOQ" which is right but he spoils it by the notion 
that "living" means "not thinking"). However this grand task became 
messed up, not only in LILA, but by the ZAMM's author who starts with 
a SOM diagrams with a "reality" on top,  which is error #1. SOM has 
one subjective and one objective reality. Full stop!  

The next error is of placing a "Quality Reality" on top which he gives 
the impression of being split by the MOQ  into one dynamic and one 
static part, which it isn't,.the true MOQ has a Dynamic Quality that has 
spawned static Quality levels. Had he presented it this way it would 
have been good - the MOQ would have been a new "healed" reality - 
but Pirsig  had become same relentless "mechanic" that he accused 
Aristotle of being who and splitted and splitted.      


The MOQ is no fifth level, but the Quality Reality it was meant to be.

End of Chautauqua

Bodvar