[MD] Is Quality Different from (Mother) Nature?

[markhsmit]

On Nov 30, 2009, at 11:32:06 AM, "Ham Priday" <hampday1 at verizon.net> wrote:
Negation is not a process; only the resulting experience is. The primary 
negation is what MoQers would call the "static mode" of the ultimate source, 
but which I think is best understood as the potentiality of a "negational" 
Essence. Process does not begin until the nothingness (negate) gains the 
value-sensibility of an indivdual human being. From then on, its 
life-experience is an interractive process involving a series of events 
perceived in time and space.

Hi Ham,
Thank you for your response.  If I were to linguistically analyze the paragraph above, the fact
that nothingness "gains" value sensibility implies a process.  Even if it like a light
switched on, it is still a process.  Trace that process back and you see Essence.

You seem to say that there is objectivity in science that cannot measure the subjective.
What is a measure?  Is an inch or a pound real?  Is a second objective?  I think that you 
would agree that measurements are simply a subjective conventions.  There is nothing objective
about measurement.  What makes it real for us is that we agree on a system.  The whole
system is made up.  Therefore to measure Essence, only agreed upon units are
necessary.  To say that it is not measurable is simply stating that it cannot be part
of a system.  Yet in your ontology you make it a system.  You may be unwilling
to design a measure as that would relegate it to the scrutiny of the intellect.  How well
would the system hold together under such scrutiny?

This is my conception of what Pirsig means by ghosts.  Such as the ghost of gravity.
Bodvar may be trying to say this, but sometimes I have a hard time seeing his point.
If Essence is real, give us some reality.  Explain it to us in measurable terms.

It is easy to pass such a thing along as a string of words which have meaning.  Yet that 
string is simply a self referencing and supporting system which has no foundation.  It is more
difficult to create a complex subjective system which grows though use.
Such growth occurs through analysis.  This is how physics grew, which
I must reiterate is based on the subjective convention of math.

In terms of the measurement of Quality, we do not measure it directly because it is everything
that is.  What we measure is its expression.

Cheers,
Mark