[MD] Emotions

[skutvik at online.no]

Ian, Andre, All.

9 Nov. :

Ian to John and Squonk:
> Which illustrates the point - 100% social / 100% biological ? Neither,
> surely. Emotions are complex things. If we talk of an emotion like
> "intersubjective compassion" that is partly genetically / biologically
> evolved and partly socially evolved - and in both cases there must be
> both brain / mind / mental as well as "somatic" embodied elements -
> and the "object" doesn't have to be another human either.

Typically Ian: When in trouble make it complex.  

Andre:
> (if you permit me to interject) emotions are a biological pattern of
> value. 'The MoQ sees emotions as a biological response to quality'...'
> (Lila's Child). They have been given social meaning and cultural (i.e
> social and intellectual PoV's) interpretation.( this may, in many
> instances lead to their 'complexity' as Ian says but I think the
> complexity is simply a matter of cultural interpretation).

As said animals would not survive if emotions were biological. Bared 
fangs and snarls do not indicate "anger", and if antelopes chased by 
lions (as they often are) were "afraid" they would not dare out on the 
plains and soon succumb. I think  Pirsig misunderstands (Jeez he 
could not recon out all MOQ's finer points)  The pure biological "flight 
or fight" adrenalin rush (which is forgotten the moment the signal stuff 
(hormone) breaks down) is raised to the emotional stage by the social 
level as FEAR (of lions in general) and HATRED (of them). With 
language emotion could be transmitted and instilled in other  within the 
community. Also the immense expressive human face and eyes could 
convey a host of more subtle emotions. 

To say that emotions starts at the biological  level, i.e. "the objective, 
real thing"  and that the social level just subjectivizes these things  is 
superimposing SOM on the MOQ. This rreflects Pirsig's inorg. + bio. = 
objective/socio. + intelle = subjective which is the greatest undermining 
of the MOQ there is. The social level's emotions is a reality level in its 
own right, it's neither subjective nor objective.            

> It remains a biological response...simple. (blushing, crying,
> laughing, smiling, anger,etc)

If emotions were biological why don't animals laugh, smile, blush, "die 
of shame"  ...etc..    

Where have you been Andre, getting all these anti-moqish notions? 

Bodvar