[MD] ego vs self

Thu Oct 1 12:46:11 PDT 2009

i mean I'm in contact with higher powers, as I perceive them.  Quality.  Maybe
Quality means the "Heaven's Tao", and i have to bend down, so that it may flow
again in my direction as I replanish my daily business.  I used to feel myself
in the same mess as did Mr. Pirsig, but now i'm alright.  In the end it's a
matter of love and loneliness and solitude of some.  I wish I could 
speak more,
but I've got a poor english and i can hardly articulate the levels from Lila.

So, thanks for the support and teachings, Marsha.

Fernando.

----- Mensagem de valkyr at att.net ---------
    Data: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 13:39:58 -0400
    De: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
Endereço para Resposta (Reply-To): moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Assunto: Re: [MD] ego vs self
      Para: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org

>
> Oh you,
>
> I speak honestly and from the bottom of my heart, and you disappear and then
> reappear to say 'gotcha'.  Weenie!
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of
> fernandocarlosfarah at mls.com.br
> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 1:31 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] ego vs self
>
> gotcha.
>
>
> ----- Mensagem de valkyr at att.net ---------
>    Data: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 04:50:14 -0400
>    De: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> Endereço para Resposta (Reply-To): moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Assunto: Re: [MD] ego vs self
>      Para: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>
>
>>
>> Fernando,
>>
>> Another thought more related to this thread.  Mr. Pirsig wrote LILA using
>> many different voices.  I appreciate the MoQ and enjoy the definitions,
>> explanations and arguments made on its behalf. I think Dynamic Quality and
>> static patterns of value (unpatterned experience and patterned experience)
>> represent the best world-view available to the West, but it was Lila's
> voice
>> with which I most identified.  I still think the best understanding of
>> 'reality' is found in Lila's words: "...I'm whatever your questions turn
> me
>> into. You don't see that. It's your questions that make me who I am. If
> you
>> think I'm an angel then that's what I am. If you think I'm a whore then
>> that's what I am. I'm whatever you think. And if you change your mind
> about
>> me then I change too. So whatever Richard tells you, it's true. There's no
>> way he can lie about me.": reality is whatever you think it is, there's no
>> way you can lie about it, and if you change your understanding of reality,
>> then reality changes too.
>>
>> There is also Lila's statement that dance is the key to life.
>>
>>
>> Marsha
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
>> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of
>> fernandocarlosfarah at mls.com.br
>> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 3:59 PM
>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>> Subject: Re: [MD] ego vs self
>>
>> Hallo, Marsha!
>>
>> Having a feminine voice in the group is an interesting addition, i think.
>> Why
>> do you think the great scholars of mankind, the prophets, the poets
>> (with a few
>> exceptions), the sages and leaders of mankind have always been male?
>> There´s a
>> lot we can learn with females but they are often put behind the scenes...
>> Why
>> would that be?  Is woman evil, does she lead to confusion has she been
> less
>> imposing throughout time?
>>
>> Yours truly,
>> Fernando.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Mensagem de valkyr at att.net ---------
>>    Data: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 12:57:10 -0400
>>    De: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
>> Endereço para Resposta (Reply-To): moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>> Assunto: Re: [MD] ego vs self
>>      Para: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> Fine, if this is what you think, because reality is whatever you think it
>> to
>>> be (ease to label, hard to define).
>>>
>>>
>>> Marsha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
>>> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of John Carl
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 12:48 PM
>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>> Subject: Re: [MD] ego vs self
>>>
>>> The way I look at it Marsha, is this:  "What I think" is one thing
>>> "Reality" is another.  That's just your basic rule of being.   But the
>> line
>>> between the two is flexible and a creative and conscious choice.  THAT is
>>> the MoQ insight into the situation.
>>>
>>> The outline of my self is the inline of the world and the creative act of
>>> drawing the line is a dynamic  process.
>>>
>>> which doesn't permit any sort of hard and fast line in the sand, the kind
>>> that reductionist westerners crave.
>>>
>>> oh well
>>>
>>> Quality and me -  easy to label, hard to define.
>>>
>>> -------------
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> John,
>>>>
>>>> If this is what you think, fine, because reality is whatever you think
> it
>>>> to
>>>> be.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marsha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
>>>> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of John Carl
>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:09 PM
>>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [MD] ego vs self
>>>>
>>>> Marsha,
>>>> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 10:27 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > You can choose to be a finite self, but for how long?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "how long" is a question about the future.  Choice doesn't exist in the
>>>> future;  Choice exists in the moment.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >  How long before you
>>>> > stop choosing, and the patterns take over without your conscious
>>>> awareness.
>>>> > Does your finite self change?  If yes, isn't that a contradiction?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The boundaries of my finitude change with my choice of focus, my
> finitude
>>>> is
>>>> bounded by this focus.  In the moment of choice, there are no
>>>> contradictions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > The MoQ
>>>> > states that there is static patterns of value and Dynamic Quality,
>> where
>>>> > does your _finite_ self fit into that framework?  Hmmmm?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ummm... lower left corner?  Dead Center?  It's not really up to me.
> I'll
>>>> let others decide.  I'm lazy that way.
>>>
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>>
>>
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