[MD] Problems with Intellectual control of Society

[plattholden at gmail.com]

On 10 Oct 2009 at 17:16, John Carl wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 8:00 AM, <plattholden at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> John]
> 
> > But what of the actual emotions I experience empirically every day of my
> > > life?
> > >
> > > 99.3% socially generated.
> >
> 
> 
Platt
> > Causes of individual emotional responses are too numerous to list. But I
> > and Pirsig argue that their source is biological.
> 
> 
> 
> John]
> 
> Then you and Pirsig are gonna have to explain to me the difference between
> "source" and "cause".  You might as well say intellectual responses are
> biological because they reside in a brain.

Platt
Using that logic you might as well say intellectual responses are 
inorganic because they depend on electrical impulses. 


> 
> 
> 
> 
Platt 
> > Fear, for example, can
> > be "generated" by social patterns (IRS) and/or intellectual patterns (mid-
> > year exams). You indicate other social patterns that generate biological
> > emotions below.
> >
> >
> 
> Yes, fear can.  And that which generates fear is the source of fear, and the
> source of fear is not biological - it is relational.  Even fear of a tiger
> is really a social situation, with many cues and responses possible between
> my biological being and his.

Platt
Fear is an emotional response and the seat of emotions is biological. 
There's no evidence of emotion at the inorganic level but lots at the 
biological. One observes rudimentary emotional behavior even among 
cells as they respond to their environment. At the root of emotional 
responses is the survival commandment, a basic characteristic of life.  



> 
 
Platt
> > "Excitement" finds its source in biology. My cat, UTOE, gets very
> > excited when a salamander climbs up our porch screen. The basic
> > emotions of pleasure and pain are biologically based. My cat purrs when
> > happy (your boss praising your work) and hisses when pissed off
> > (somebody cuts you off in traffic).
> >
> >
> 
> I disagree.  Excitement finds its expression in biology.  What you are
> calling a "source", I am calling a response because I say the feeling comes
> before feeling the feelings.

Platt
That doesn't make much sense to me. 


> 
> And if that doesn't make much sense to you, then you can at least empathize
> with me because your posit of emotions having a biological source makes as
> little to me.
> 
> The source of an emotion is  Quality.  My biological organism responds to
> these arising emotions in a fundamental way that makes you think of them as
> the source, but the biology is not the source, it is the vehicle.  My body
> carries thoughts that "tingle" in my arms, create a pit in my stomach, flush
> my cheeks... these are biological responses to DQ - created emotions.
>  Emotions arising from social relations - social relations all around me,
> even in the social interaction between my being and inorganic matter - when
> my relationship with my woodstove gets too intimate for my taste, and I need
> some space.
> 
> Social relations codified in word and structure, existing on differing
> levels of being.  Ultimately, emotions are part of intellect - a
> pre-objective thinking that is probably our closest link to what some term,
> Pure Experience and I would call, Quality.

Platt
According to the author of the MOQ, the social level exists only on the 
human level of being.  As for the source of emotion being Quality, 
Quality is is source of everything. Unless you take into account the static 
levels and DQ, you might as well attribute the source of emotions to 
God's will. 
 

> I say "I could be wrong" once in awhile to let you and others know that I
> > detest the arrogance of some who think they know what's good for
> > others and are willing to put my money where their mouths are.
> >
> 
> 
> Ah well.  Interesting.  Does humility as a rhetorical technique retain still
> the meaning of the word?

Platt
"Humility" is a reminder to myself and others that we don't know 
everything, including what's good for others. Forgetting or ignoring 
humility leads to low quality bigotry and despotism.