[MD] irony and socrates

[skutvik at online.no]

Hi Matt

On 10 Oct.

John had said:
> So we have Greek thought and influence upon early christian thinking,
> and then much later we have christian reinterpreting of greek texts; 
> back and forth, the pendulum swings. 

Matt comments
> It's not just a religious thing, but the language itself. 
> Christianity was created when Paul translated the Hebrew religion into
> Greek.  The Semitic religious tradition became contaminated by
> Hellenism, both became transmogrified into Latin, and the influence of
> Hebrew through Latin began extending back over into the Greek,
> contaminating our understanding of them.  It's a real clusterfuck. 

You are right it's not just a religious thing, its the Quality development 
more specific the intellect vs society snuggle that - according to Pirsig 
- has determined most things since intellect's emergence with the 
Greeks. What you say here is correct but why not use the MOQ's 
reference frame? The Hebrew as the most refined social value 
pattern and Christendom as intellect's first effort of intellectual 
infringement. By now Christendom is 90% intellectual at least in 
protestant North Western Europe while Catholicism and the various 
strange sects still cling to the social value Old  Testament.        

> The best book that is amazingly accessible on the subject is Pierre
> Hadot's What Is Ancient Philosophy?  He isolates what he calls
> "spiritual exercises" as the centerpiece of Greek philosophy, and in
> the final chapters blames Christianity for the "over-theoreticization"
> of modern philosophy.  I don't swallow his blaming wholesale, but it's
> the best introduction to Greek philosophy available. 

OK, maybe the best "conventional" (SOM-based) book, but the ever 
best is LILA that conveys MOQ's view - had only the intellctual level 
issue been settled, but I feel now that David Buchananan is away that 
the SOL (intellect=SOM) is accepted, but you see the trouble, all who 
read LILA and its ambiguous 4th. level grabs the conventional 
"intellect = mind" interpretation. Your own position here is unclear. 

Bodvar