[MD] Some historical perspective

[Marsha]

Hi Squonk,

See below...


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 18, 2009, at 6:23 AM, "MarshaV" <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

>
> Marsha:
> 'Here is how I define the Intellectual Level as s/o: the  
> Intellectual Level
> is the subject/object level in that it contains patterns that are the
> reification of abstract concepts and symbols, and the rules  
> (grammar, logic,
> mathematics) used for manipulating them.?
>
> squonk:
> It seems to me there may be a flaw in this definition (i may be
> wrong),?because that which is being defined, 'abstract concepts and  
> symbols,
> and the rules (grammar, logic, mathematics) used for manipulating  
> them', are
> not objects in a relationship with a subject. Rather, they [abstract
> concepts and symbols, and the rules (grammar, logic, mathematics)  
> used for
> manipulating them] form relationships with each other within an
> isolated?realm of their own.
>
> (This seems to be RMP's assertion anyway.)
>
>

Marsha:
My definition is describing the functioning of the intellectual  
patterns.  The self is assumed to be performing the manipulation.  Of  
course it is a dualistic illusion.  From the Quality point-of-view,  
there is unpatterned experience and patterned experience, and all  
static patterns of value are relational.


> Squonk:
> This may beg the question: What delights in these relationships?
>
> And i think the moq would state that 'delight' is an emotional  
> response,
> that is to say, it is biological in nature. It is therefore the,  
> 'Naked ape'
> which delights in 'abstract concepts and symbols, and the rules  
> (grammar,
> logic, mathematics) used for manipulating them'.
>

Marsha:
Why don't you tell me.




>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marsha <valkyr at att.net>
> To: MoQ <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> Sent: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 4:36
> Subject: Re: [MD] Some historical perspective
>
>
>
> Greetings Squonk,?
> ?
> Here is how I define the Intellectual Level as s/o: the Intellectual  
> Level
> is the subject/object level in that it contains patterns that are the
> reification of abstract concepts and symbols, and the rules  
> (grammar, logic,
> mathematics) used for manipulating them.?
> ?
> Marsha?
> ?
> ?
> Sent from my iPhone?
> ?
> On Oct 17, 2009, at 11:23 PM, "MarshaV" <valkyr at att.net> wrote:?
> ?
>> ?
>> ?
>> ?
>> ?
>> squonk:?
>> The moq does not state, 'the intellectual level is occupied by >
> subject/object metaphysics' because static intellectual patterns, >  
> which
> are said to be the intellectual level in the moq, are abstract >  
> symbols
> which include subjects and objects as well as 'other > patterns'  
> which are
> neither subjects or objects.?
>> ?
>> Examples of 'other patterns' include numbers and algebra which  
>> refer > to
> other abstract symbols and form relationships with each other: 2 > x  
> 2 = 4
> on their own terms regardless of what social context these > terms?
>> exist in, and are therefore isolated within their own relationships  
>> > as
> intellectual patterns.?
>> ?
>> ?
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