[MD] Problems with Intellectual control of Society

Mon Oct 19 10:47:05 PDT 2009

Hitler was a monster conditioned by his time.  By the time of the raise of the
2nd WW, Germany was infested by criminals who commandede the ¨efforts¨ of war.

----- Mensagem de ridgecoyote at gmail.com ---------
    Data: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 09:37:27 -0700
    De: John Carl <ridgecoyote at gmail.com>
Endereço para Resposta (Reply-To): moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Assunto: Re: [MD] Problems with Intellectual control of Society
      Para: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org

> Will, thanks for that link to the interview with the founder of Wikipedia.
> Most informative.
> I will posit a solution that will help expose your intellectualism
> conundrum:
>
> Wikipedia is better than an encyclopedia BECAUSE of its orientation toward
> DQ.
>
> An encyclopedia seems better to you because of its higher intellectual
> value, but it is the very static nature of reliance upon single-source,
> authoritative expertise that makes it less good from an MoQ perspective.
>
> A questing young mind that comes to a body of information with the attitude,
> "I'll see what the experts say and trust in that." will find more happiness
> in the most expert publication.  And then this mind will latch and attach
> the information obtained in a very rigid and dogmatic way.
>
> But a mind that approaches the text with doubt and openess will absorb the
> knowledge provisionally and dynamically, using it but not attaching dogmatic
> fixitude will in the long run be the better informed individual.
>
> Of course, I guess you could take this to an extreme and say, "well why not
> read something completely ridiculously wrong.  You'll even be less likely to
> attach dogmatically."
>
> If you say that, then I'll say,  "well..., ummm...., errrrr...."
>
> Sometimes Quality is more difficult to define than others, but I KNOW good
> (and bad) when I experience it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 5:36 PM, markhsmit <markhsmit at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey John,
>> Don't get me wrong, I like to read Wikipedia as well.  It is yet another
>> source
>> for knowledge.  I feel that I need to cross-reference much of what I read,
>> but
>> often it is a good starting point.  And, no, not all expertise belongs to
>> the
>> encyclopedia, and often unsupported claims are made even in those
>> Halls of Knowledge.  What surprises me is how Wikipedia has become
>> a source for reference for the younger generation.  We don't even know
>> who wrote the articles.  Otherwise, it's all good.
>>
>> I don't think we are in an anti-intellectual crisis, and I appreciate you
>> putting the Mao purging into context.  It would appear that
>> anti-intellectualism
>> is just another word (like PC) which really has no meaning except as
>> a tool to insult someone or to get one's way.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Willblake2
>>
>> On Oct 18, 2009, at 11:25:02 AM, "John Carl" <ridgecoyote at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> From:   "John Carl" <ridgecoyote at gmail.com>
>> Subject:    Re: [MD] Problems with Intellectual control of Society
>> Date:   October 18, 2009 11:25:02 AM PDT
>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>> I like Wikipedia because not all expertise belongs to the encyclopedia
>> companies. The more you care about any given topic, the more you're likely
>> to know about it and wish to comment or inform your fellows.
>> Keeping the whole thing dynamic and open and evolving gives us the
>> opportunity to keep it sharp and accurate, if "we the people" want it so.
>>
>> If you really think that there is anti-intellectualism going on
>> > in the US at this time, by all means, convince others, and rage
>> > against it. Unless of course you think it is good thing. Take sides
>> > create a movement, what's happening now with anti-intellectualism
>> > could result in another purging like in China after the second world war.
>> >
>>
>>
>> I got a different perspective on China last week. There's this guy I know,
>> known him a long time from the SDA church. We were working together
>> trimming the leaves off my brother's crop, a communal activity with lots of
>> time for gab, and I got to know stuff about him I never knew before. He
>> speaks fluent Mandarin. He used to teach Formosan villagers english and
>> he's an enthusiast of Mao's Red Book.
>>
>> All stuff that I never knew. People can be so much more rich and
>> complicated than you observe on the surface.
>>
>> Anyway, he made a point about Mao's massacre of intellectuals that it
>> wasn't
>> "anti-intellectual" per se, rather it was following in the tradition of
>> thousands of years of Chinese history when one dynasty wipes out the
>> intellectual classes of the former so that it's own new intellectual
>> evolution takes over. Thus it wasn't society wiping out the intellectuals
>> so much as one intellectual pattern dominating society by wiping out
>> competing intellectual patterns.
>>
>>
>> How did we let our society get so anti-intellectual, where did we go
>> > wrong, where will it lead?
>>
>>
>> I think the anti-intellectualism you and Arlo see is born of a good
>> instinct, a collective, albeit ill-informed rejection of a value-free
>> metaphysical outlook which society blames upon intellectualism. But without
>> a more comprehensive metaphysical outlook to guide it, is in great danger
>> of
>> making the mistakes of any reactionary, tossing babies all over the place
>> in
>> its effort to get some clean bath water in the tub.
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