[MD] irony and Socrates

[MarshaV]

Thanks. The weather was not so good, but there was a warm smoky fireplace
and Ludwig. Now I need a long rest.   

I listened to Beethoven's:

Sonatas #11 through #22, Piano Concertos #1 through #5, Fidelio, Symphonies
#3, #5, #6, #7, #8 & #9, and String Quartets: E flat major, C sharp minor, A
minor, F major, B flat major, Grosse Fugue and the later revision of the
Allegro of the B flat major quartet.

Do you know what a nasty man Beethoven was to his fellow man?  Extremely
nasty to everyone!!!  Thank goodness.  


Marsha
 
p.s.  I always thought the "fixing motorcycles" was analogy for
'experiencing quality'.    






-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of John Carl
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:08 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] irony and Socrates

Marsha,
Welcome back, you were missed.  You bring out the most salient point for me:



> The social values are right only if the individual values are right.


I believe individual values arise from social patterns, starting with the
most basic of all social interactions, mother and child.



> The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and
> hands, and then to work outward from there. Other people can talk about
how
> to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a
> motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. "
>

Well said rhetorically, Professor Pirsig, but dialectically deficient.  If
all you wanted to talk about was fixing motorcycles, none of us would be
here.

I  agree that my own heart and hands can be the only possible starting
point, obviously.   But the mindfulness of how my actions will effect others
and the bigger picture is vital for the evolution of the whole.

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