[MD] Some historical perspective

[MarshaV]

Mark,

You are quite correct, the moq does not assume there is a 'self' which manipulates static patterns of intellectual quality.  For me the MoQ defines Quality as experience, unpatterned experience(DQ) and patterned experience(spovs).  But I was explaining the mistaken nature of Intellectual patterns as I understand them.  But first, I might mention that in general I understand all spov to be patterned experience that are ever-changing, interrelated, interconnected, relative and conceptually constructed.

Within the last few months I have come to the conclusion that, like Bo has been arguing, Intellectual patterns are all of the subject/object type.  That is, when Intellectual patterns is the process where a reified concept or symbol be acted upon by a independent self.  This is not from the MoQ point-of-view, but from a SOM point-of-view. Again, I stress that I believe that the Quality point-of-view, but the illusory subject/object point-of-view.  I have also come to think that the Quality should have its own level because the difference between quality experience and subject/object thinking is so great that it represents a huge leap from the Intellectual Level, but even in this new Quality Level, DQ will remain indivisible, undefinable and unknowable and permeate all levels.  This Quality Level would be like a superposition of all that is knowable and all that is unknowable.  Now all that I have just stated is intellectualizing, and full of illusions of subjects and objects.  But then all your talk of naked apes, nervous systems and emotions are also statements about reified concepts.  That fact that you are presenting them even if using a lower case i, makes it a subject/object type of philosophical statement.  And as for the rest of your statements, I have no idea what you are getting at with your 'delighting nervous system'.  


Marsha 

 







-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of mark_maxwell at talktalk.net
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 12:19 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Some historical perspective

Hi Marsha,

 
Marsha: 
My definition is describing the functioning of the intellectual patterns. The self is assumed to be performing the manipulation. Of course it is a dualistic illusion. From the Quality point-of-view, there is unpatterned experience and patterned experience, and all static patterns of value are relational.

 

squonk: Thanks for this additional data.

IMO the moq does not assume there is a 'self' which manipulates static patterns of intellectual quality.

If static patterns of intellectual quality are isolated within their own realm i think it may therefore be assumed to be DQ which performs the manipulation of static patterns of intellectual quality.

I may have got this all wrong.
 
> 20Squonk: 
> This may beg the question: What delights in these relationships? 
> 
> And i think the moq would state that 'delight' is an emotional > response, 
> that is to say, it is biological in nature. It is therefore the, > 'Naked ape' 
> which delights in 'abstract concepts and symbols, and the rules > (grammar, 
> logic, mathematics) used for manipulating them'.
 
Marsha: 
Why don't you tell me. 


 

squonk: If delight is an emotional response, and if emotions are biological in nature, then a nervous system is required in order for emotions to be experienced. Naked apes have nervous systems, 'E = mc2' as 'abstract concepts and symbols, and the rules used for manipulating th
 em' does not.

The relationship between a delighting nervous system and E = mc2 bypasses social patterns (almost - another culture may replace these symbols with other culturally inherited ones, but their relationships would be the same: T " ~s¬ would have to have a one to one correlation with E = mc2)

IMO this description is not dualistic.

It does rely upon differentiation, of which dualism is a subset.

I may be wrong.

 

All the best,

squonk


 
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/