[MD] irony and Socrates

[MarshaV]

I soooo miss riding,,, at least behind someone who uses common sense.




-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of John Carl
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 12:34 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] irony and Socrates

On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 11:58 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

>
>
> p.s.  I always thought the "fixing motorcycles" was analogy for
> 'experiencing quality'.
>
>
>
Maybe you're right.  I guess it depends.  I see mine crumpled suzuki and it
brings tears to my eyes and guilt to my soul...  not to mention glares from
my wife who wasn't fond of the whole motorcycle idea in the first place.




>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of John Carl
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:08 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] irony and Socrates
>
> Marsha,
> Welcome back, you were missed.  You bring out the most salient point for
> me:
>
>
>
> > The social values are right only if the individual values are right.
>
>
> I believe individual values arise from social patterns, starting with the
> most basic of all social interactions, mother and child.
>
>
>
> > The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and
> > hands, and then to work outward from there. Other people can talk about
> how
> > to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a
> > motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. "
> >
>
> Well said rhetorically, Professor Pirsig, but dialectically deficient.  If
> all you wanted to talk about was fixing motorcycles, none of us would be
> here.
>
> I  agree that my own heart and hands can be the only possible starting
> point, obviously.   But the mindfulness of how my actions will effect
> others
> and the bigger picture is vital for the evolution of the whole.
>
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