[MD] the Value of Think Again

John Carl ridgecoyote at gmail.com
Sun Oct 25 09:45:48 PDT 2009 

I agree Will,  I really appreciate Allen Watt's insight in Psychotherapy
East and West that Buddhism is more of a therapy than a religion.  Therapy
for intellectualism, just like I find in William.James.

But it's a cool quote anyway so who cares if its true!

J

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 9:37 PM, markhsmit <markhsmit at aol.com> wrote:

> Hey John,
> I saw the quote from Einstein below.  Unfortunately, Einstein should have
> stuck
> to physics.  Buddhism is not a religion any more than baseball or
> existentialism.
> It is a philosophy in the truest sense of the world.  There is no deity.
>  Atheists make
> very good Buddhists, Christ made a very good Buddhist.
> Cheers,
> Willblake2
>
> On Oct 9, 2009, at 8:35:42 AM, "John Carl" <ridgecoyote at gmail.com> wrote:
> From:   "John Carl" <ridgecoyote at gmail.com>
> Subject:    Re: [MD] the Value of Think Again
> Date:   October 9, 2009 8:35:42 AM PDT
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Well being an atheist doesn't seem to me to jibe with "not this, not that"
> actually. How can you say any concept is either meaningful or not
> meaningful, given the relativity of concept?
> I have read the Copleston annotations, and found them very helpful. I also
> found them to carry the reader toward an opposite conclusion to the one
> quote out of context that you provide. To counter them, I'd offer the
> quote from ZAMM that says "God and Good come from the same root meaning."
> Do you think Pirsig would advocate dropping "good" from the MoQ?
>
>
> "The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend
> a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both natural and
> spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the
> experience of all things, natural and spiritual and a meaningful unity.
> Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that would
> cope with modern scientific needs, it would be Buddhism."
> Einstein
>
> ----------------
>
> Perhaps the most famous campaign to spread the dhamma was that of Emperor
> Asoka, the Indian king who sent envoys throughout Asia. But notice the
> enlightened attitude of Asoka compared with other missionaries. In one of
> his edicts, which he carved into a rock (it's still readable today), he
> says,
>
> One should not honor only one's own religion and condemn the religion of
> others, but one should honor other's religions for this or that reason. So
> doing, one helps one's own religion to grow and renders service to the
> religions of others too. In acting otherwise one digs the grave of one's
> own religion and also does harm to other religions. Whosever honors his own
> religion and condemns other religions, does so indeed through devotion to
> his own religion, thinking, "I will glorify my own religion." But on the
> contrary, in so doing he injures his own religion more gravely. So concord
> is good. Let all listen, and be willing to listen to the doctrines
> professed
> by others.
>
> Stephen Asma, Gods Drink Whiskey
>
> ---------------------------
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 7:41 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>
> > Hello John,
> >
> > You suggested to think again the 'Judeo-Christian understanding of man',
> > and
> > I suggested you to think again the Judeo-Christianity's misogynistic
> > attitude towards women. I am not a Buddhist nor a member of any religion,
> > I
> > am an atheist: Atheists are people who believe that god or gods (or other
> > supernatural beings) are man-made constructs, myths and legends or who
> > believe that these concepts are not meaningful.
> >
> >
> > "The MOQ would add a fourth stage where the term "God" is completely
> > dropped
> > as a relic of an evil social suppression of intellectual and Dynamic
> > freedom. The MOQ is not just atheistic in this regard. It is
> > anti-theistic."
> > (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
> >
> > http://robertpirsig.org/Copleston.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > Marsha
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> > [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of John Carl
> > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 9:35 AM
> > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > Subject: Re: [MD] the Value of Think Again
> >
> > Well I don't intend on taking the role of Christian Apologist, that's for
> > sure.
> > I will point out to you, that if you think Judeo-Christian culture is
> > misogynistic, then you should try living in Buddhist Asia for a while and
> > see how it compares.
> >
> > Really, the whole question of "women's rights" only evolves with enough
> > leisure time to nurture such concerns. Before now, men and women were too
> > concerned about survival to worry about equality.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:58 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hi John
> > >
> > > You did say Judeo-Christian, and the Old Testament also is chocked full
> > of
> > > misogynistic garbage. I hope were not going to travel down that theist
> > > track again.
> > >
> > >
> > > Marsha
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> > > [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of John Carl
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 3:57 PM
> > > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > > Subject: Re: [MD] the Value of Think Again
> > >
> > > Marsha,
> > > yes, I have considered the J-C understanding of women, most of the
> > problem
> > > coming from that greeky paul, who is the only guy I know in the whole
> > bible
> > > who said women should shut up and back off.
> > >
> > > He's also the guy that didn't advocate having a wife, even tho all the
> > > other
> > > apostles did. Then you get the whole patriarchical roman empire
> muddying
> > > the waters and you have today, a system which is stupid and incomplete.
> > >
> > > I agree.
> > >
> > > I think women are very important. Where would I get my pie and my
> babies
> > > if
> > > it weren't for women? So get pregant and back into the kitchen and
> > realize
> > > your own fundamental value - just kidding - but honestly, my own
> > > particular
> > > introduction to the christian indoctrination was very slanted in this
> > > regard
> > > because the leader and prophet of the whole organization was a woman.
> > >
> > > So a lot of theological defensiveness was developed over the years and
> > > absorbed by me on YOUR side on this question. The whole raison d'etre
> of
> > > SDAism is overthrow of Romish ideas like Sunday observance and
> > spiritually
> > > inherent patriarchy, natural immortality of a "soul" and doctrines of
> > > original sin and other such pagan ideas.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:27 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > John,
> > > >
> > > > Have you considered the Judeo-Christian understanding of women?
> > There's
> > > > where you might think again.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Marsha
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> > > > [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of John
> Carl
> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:17 PM
> > > > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > > > Subject: [MD] the Value of Think Again
> > > >
> > > > >From the point of view of the theory of evolution, mankind is only
> one
> > > > species among thousands which have their place within the field of
> life
> > > on
> > > > earth. The fact that people took the theory of evolution as an enemy
> of
> > > > religion shows only how rigidly they understood the idea of God. But
> > the
> > > > same may be said of scientist and others who now comfortably accept
> > that
> > > > the
> > > > theory of evolution has disproved the Judeo-Christian understanding
> of
> > > man.
> > > > As we shall see, this only shows how rigidly they have understood
> > nature.
> > > >
> > > > Jacob Needleman, explicating the need to "think again".
> > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list
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