[MD] The 4th. level's two interpretations. Part 2

[mark_maxwell at talktalk.net]

Bo quote Pirsig:
"For purposes of MOQ precision let's say that the intellectual level is the same as mind...."
("Lila's Child" page 64, annotation: #25) 

RMP:
'But if one studies the early books of the Bible or if one studies the sayings of primitive tribes today, the intellectual level is conspicuously absent. The world is ruled by Gods who follow social and biological patterns and nothing else.' (Letter to Paul Turner)
 
squonk: The bible is composed of linguistic symbols we call language, but there is no intellectual level because biblical language represents social patterns.
 
RMP:
'Intellectuality occurs when these customs [social patterns] as well as biological and inorganic patterns are designated with a sign that stands for them and these signs are manipulated independently of the patterns they stand for.' (Letter to Paul Turner)
 
squonk: Note that intellectuality requires two operations:
1. the existence of designated signs, and
2. for these signs to be independently manipulated.
 
RMP:
"Intellect" can then be defined very loosely as the level of independently manipulable signs. Grammar, logic and mathematics can be described as the rules of this sign manipulation. (Letter to Paul Turner)
 
squonk: And as we can see, 'Mind' as a realm of symbols may have either one, or both aspects:
a. the existence of designated signs, and
b. independent manipulation.
Therefore, 'Mind' is not the same as the intellect.
 
Ron: 
lets take this out to it's end. IF as you say Bo, that the intellectual 
level IS SOM, and SOM IS "mind". Therefore to understand your version 
of the MoQ, we'd have to be out of our minds.
 

squonk: This is most problematic for Bo's position. However, the 10 year old ambiguity dissolves when we apply the 'symbol/hyper-symbolic' approach.
 
All the best,
squonk