[MD] 'Uncertainty

[MarshaV]

Ian,

Here is what has me curious.  I have watched three lecture series (36 hours
total) on slightly different aspects of Quantum Theory, and read two books
on the history of the Copenhagen Interpretation, and seem to have retained a
beginner's mind: Huh?  Now what if I went back to University for six years
to study Quantum Theory?  After six years of indoctrination what would
happen to beginner's mind?  When would 'Huh?' begin to transform into the
indoctrinated reality?  

Then I also wonder if I were indoctrinated, for six years, into using a
non-Euclidean geometry explained in pig-Latin, what, when, where, why and
how long would it take 'Huh?' to transform into the indoctrinated reality?
Or maybe just subjecting myself to begin a six-year indoctrination would be
a major step in the conversion? 

I really want to know?


Marsha




-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Ian Glendinning
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:12 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] 'Uncertainty

BTW Marsha, I'm reading the Lindley book.

It is very good, very readable, all the usual suspects, a history of
"subatomic" physics and the philosophical weirdness that arisess.
Recommended.

Regards
Ian

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 11:15 AM, MarshaV<valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>
> Ian,
>
> Yes, they are all there.  It must have been very dynamic times, indeed.
 War
> and hate everywhere, and they were safe within their abstract concepts.  I
> understand that isn't really a fair statement.  -  It is a very enjoyable
> book.  I have another one like it next in the queue. I'm only beginning to
> understand the language.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
> p.s.  Page 86 of the paperback edition.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Ian
Glendinning
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 5:01 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] 'Uncertainty
>
> Absolutely Marsha,
>
> Einstein, Heisenberg and Bohr, not to mention Schroedinger and Born,
> all I believe (and have said before) got the metaphysical implications
> of the weirdness before them - the lack of intrinsic reality for any
> of us.
>
> Trouble is Copenhagen, (and "many worlds" and the like) created
> mathematical recipe books, that simply ignored them - LHC continues to
> ignore them.
>
> (I shall have to take a look at that Lindley reference.)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 9:49 AM, MarshaV<valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >From 'Uncertainty: Einstein, Heisenberg, Bohr, and the Struggle for the
> Soul
>> of Science' by David Lindley:
>>
>>
>>
>> "   . "When it comes to atoms," Bohr concluded enigmatically, "language
> can
>> be used only as in poetry.  The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned
with
>> describing facts as with creating images and establishing mental
>> connections."
>>
>>   This, to Heisenberg, was strange and revelatory.  Only a generation
>> earlier, Boltzmann and his allies had argued strenuously for the atom as
a
>> concrete .thing., not a theoretical abstraction, still less a poetical
>> allusion.  Was Bohr now saying that physicists couldn't hope to describe
>> atoms concretely, that they must make do with analogies and metaphors?
>  That
>> the intrinsic reality of an atom was inaccessible to them?  That perhaps
> it
>> was meaningless even to talk about the intrinsic reality of an atom?"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The other day I heard a physicist, talking about the equations to
> calculate
>> spin, say "This isn't just mathematics, this is real".    Huh?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  _____________
>>
>>
>>
>> "There are things that are so serious that you can only joke about them."
>>
>>     (Werner Karl Heisenberg)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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