[MD] The relativity of the MoQ

[Andre Broersen]

Ham to Andre, Ron, Platt, Marsha, and All --:

>From then on, the discussion disintegrated into an argument
over social polemics.

Andre (the dreamer)
Couldn't agree more Ham, that's when I got distracted.

Ham:
What is also undeniable, but missed in the dialectics, is that the split
between "ultimate reality" and "experienced reality" is absolute.  That is,
we cannot transport ourselves from an objective, relational world to
metaphysical 'Oneness' by intellect, faith, or some mystic Sutra.  The
division is existentially insurmountable. So that what we do in our
"culture" or politics has no bearing on ultimate reality.  (Sorry Platt and
Andre.)

Andre:
No need to apologise Ham. Just a few thoughts on this. I do not believe that
the split (as you call it) between 'ultimate r' and 'experienced r' is
necessarily absolute or remains absolute. We are still in the process
of evolution. In this sense we are not human 'being' but human 'becoming'.
And perhaps even the adjective 'human' will, one moon, disappear.

'We' have only been around for a few thousand years and have not evolved
beyond the biological/ social and intellectual...yet. We still need
nourishments and rely on sexual reproduction. We still need eachother and as
our knowledge, through the resolution of paradoxes continues to deepen, our
level of consciousness (or perhaps the quality thereof) may be measured in
relation to these.

But many, many people have experienced 'states' beyond the organic/social
and intellectual. Near Death Experiencers for one and meditative (and drug
induced) processes point to experiences that, to me, reduces/nullifies the
absoluteness of the split you talk about.

Maybe we are evolving toward one consciousness, who knows? I wouldn't
foreclose on anything.

All these so called 'mystical' experiences are simply too numerous to be
mere subjective aberations. Within the MoQ these experiences are real. And
they all lead to one conclusion.

It seems to me Ham that we are perhaps not so far apart in our thinking.
(imho) sometimes the language we use is awkward and I do not understand half
your language.
Don't start proselytising though, I'll stick to quality... and, you may
consider the above a whole heap of bull anyway.

Cheers
Andre (continues the dream).