[MD] Uncertainty

[Andre Broersen]

Marsha to Mati and Ham:
I am flipping out with happiness,

Andre:
C'mon Marsha, behave yourself.

Bodvar to resurrected Dave:
... if you could bring the discussion to the social level for a while

Andre:
I just did.

Marsha:
I could go on and on and on...   Like it's all projection and if you want to
make a better world steadfastly project betterness.  And like the 'self' is
not 'real' either but projection.  But may this is for some too much too
accept.

Andre:
Yes Marsha, I do not accept! But before I jump in too hard perhaps I should
simply ask what you mean by 'projection'. ( I believe there is a useful
distinction to make between 'ego' (the projecting type) and 'self' (the
co-creative type).
So I'll leave it with you for a minute (if you don't mind).

Ian:
This is the crux of where I have difficulty with Bo's SOL.
You use the word "level" four times, but you say "the MoQ being a
major separation", and then say "a new perspective".

Where is this separation / perspective ? In what ? Of what ?
Perhaps you could just elaborate / explain your "separation" point a
little further. (with or without using the words level and/or pattern)

Andre:
Long, long ago, in a momentary lapse of reason, I was able to half
understandingly follow Bodvar and make the suggestion (which was a sort of a
epiphany for me) that the inevitable concluding answer was the Code of Art
(the 'level'...rather the 'code' above the intellectual level) Bodvar
transmitted :'Houston, Houston we have a breakthrough' (do you remember
Bodvar?)
Thinking about it ( which is probably the problem... I started to have
mis-givings)...with what Pirsig says, Ant says, dmb says...but the SOL does
make sense. The only thing I still have difficulty with is exactly what you
ask Ian: FROM  WHERE DOES BODVAR ARGUE HIS POINT? Is it the intellectual
level? If so, which 'part'? Above?

 I also realise that there are 2 ways of experiencing the MoQ: the static
and the Dynamic way. I wonder to what extent these are clouding the issues
involved.

The metaphor often used is the gallery with the different [intellectual]
paintings hanging on the wall. I have never felt comfortable with this. What
is meant by the gallery?? For me the 'gallery' (if one wants to put it as
such) IS the MoQ!
That is why I asked the earlier question about the relativity of the MoQ. A
different way of asking the same question, of course, is how
all-encompassing is the MoQ?. Science is looking for a 'theory of
Everything...is the MoQ a "Metaphysics of Everything?
The thing in its favour are that the doors remain wide open, doors it has
opened within itself. I find this a strength but I sense that Bodvar sees it
as a weakness (as I understand it by making itself a static intellectual
pattern of value) ...but static is relative...the doors remain wide open
because it is open to Dynamic Quality

Can this be part of the crux: that with Aristotle's birth of our ' modern
scientific understanding of reality was born (ZMM, p374), this understanding
excluded value... BUT was later identified by Pirsig as remaining valid ( in
comparison to religion) BECAUSE IT REMAINED OPEN TO DYNAMIC QUALITY (
without realising or acknowledging it). That is, its discoveries were
'provisional'...its doors were kept open.
Now, it was this that Bodvar identified as the emergence of 'intellect' BUT
I then say...its doors... surely were and still are open. But then Bodvar
will come along and say that I am confusing 'intellect' with
'intellectualising', thinking about S/O, and remaining within its circles
and tentacles.
Pirsig (or rather Phaedrus of ZMM) extracted himself from this S/O split by
going through the horns and arriving at Quality which dissolves this split
(pre-intellectually) and rather causes us to think that we,
intellectually,create the subjects and objects.

But Lila dissolves the split: there are no subjects and objects...all is
patterns of quality..you, me, the entire cosmos as interacting PoV's.

We are 15 billion years old.

'We shall not cease from exploration
and the end of all our exploring
will be to arrive where we started
and know the place for the first time'

T.S. Elliot.

Andre, still crazy after all these years... and returning to China!