[MD] The Word is Not the Thing

[MarshaV]

Hi Platt,

I want to live in the Quantum world.  To me it is the most exciting,
MoQ-like place to be.  And it is 'the Mystery' that is most real to me.
When a physicist says  the equation to determine particle spin represents
some-thing "real", I want to bombard him with thrown shoes. I seem to be
very prejudice and want to toss all talk of William James aside, and move on
to the cutting edge of Quantum Theory and the Philosophy of Science.  Maybe
there is the proper place for the MoQ to be, as a bridge between Eastern
Wisdom and Western Knowledge: Quantum Theory and its relationship with the
Philosophy of Science, and its relationship to Buddhism.  

Consciousness is another mysterious frontier where a bridge between East and
West is needed. Maybe this is what Krimel was trying to explain. -  I keep
wanting to respond to Ham concerning 'awareness'.  Awareness is the most
real thing I experience, but I haven't the foggiest thing to say about it
that doesn't degrade into babble.  I know awareness most from meditation,
but not nearly with the required dedication to speak about it. I want to say
something like awareness is where Quality hangs out, and those
non-affirming-negative I've grown fond of.  

You are kind, generous and beautiful, and I love you. You always
appropriately bring my head down from the clouds and back to art.


Marsha

 




-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of
plattholden at gmail.com
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 6:40 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] The Word is Not the Thing

Marsha,

I like your analogy with quantum physics. The more we become familiar 
with the MOQ the more it resonates across the cognitive and aesthetic 
spectrum. Your continuing emphasis on the ineffable spontaneous 
dynamic flux of reality has influenced my own perspective more than 
you know. For that much thanks..

Platt 

On 14 Sep 2009 at 17:08, MarshaV wrote:

> Hi Platt,
> 
> I like this Platt.  I think of the MoQ as all process until it is
> intellectualized, then it collapses into a subject and object.  Just like
a
> photon.  More often than not, you seem correct.   
> 
> 
> Marsha
>  
>  
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of
> plattholden at gmail.com
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:01 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: [MD] The Word is Not the Thing
> 
> All:
> 
> The great debate about whether the MOQ belongs to the intellectual level 
> or not may have a rather simple solution. It both belongs to the
> intellectual 
> level and it doesn't. As a description of reality it's a static
intellectual
> 
> pattern. As the central reality it's Dynamic -- beyond words.  
> 
> I've come to this conclusion by reviewing Pirsig's comment in Lila's Child
> to 
> an assertion I made about the MOQ many years ago, namely that "The 
> MOQ is an SOM document based on SOM reasoning." (and by implication 
> belonging to the intellectual level). In note 132 Pirsig wrote:
> 
> "It employs SOM reasoning the SOM reasoning employs social structures 
> such as courts and journals and learned societies to make itself known. 
> SOM reasoning is not subordinate to these social structures, and the MOQ 
> is not subordinate to the SOM structures it employs. Remember the central 
> reality of the MOQ is not an object or a subject or anything else. It is 
> understood by direct experience only and not by reasoning of any kind.".
> 
> Or, as my old college textbook on semantics says, "The word is not the 
> thing."  A map is not the territory, a menu is not the food, a pointing
> finger 
> is not the moon.
> 
> Obvious? Of course. But I easily forget. I forget the independence of 
> symbols from the experiences symbolized. I fail to remember that the 
> differences between actual and symbolic experience are great. I am not at 
> risk of being killed by watching a movie like "The Longest Day;" I don't
> feel 
> the cold while reading about the Antarctic. 
> 
> And so it is with the MOQ. It's intellectual pattern contained in ZAMM and

> Lila  is the map at the intellectual level.  Dynamic quality experience is
> the 
> territory. Many focus on the former and call it the MOQ. Bo focuses on the

> latter and calls it the MOQ. Like the heads and tails of a coin, both are
> right. 
> 
> Here we battle over interpreting the map. At the same time as we write to 
> express our views, we  engage Dynamic quality.   
> 
> I'm sure others have reached this conclusion before and may have 
> presented it here. For me sometimes  the dawning comes late.
> 
> As always, I could be wrong. 
> 
> Platt
> 

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