[MD] Logos is not ergon

[X Acto]

a conversation between David Bohm and Krishnamurti
 
K: I understand that. But I am trying to find out the origin of all this misery, confusion - follow what I mean? - conflict, struggle - what is the beginning of it? That's why I asked at the beginning: has mankind taken a wrong turn? Is the origin 'I am not I'?
 
DB: Well, that might be getting closer. I think that is getting closer to separation between 'I am not I'.
 
K: Yes, that's it, that's it. And the 'I' - why has mankind created this 'I', which must inevitably cause conflict? 'I' and you, and me better and so on, so on, so on.
 
DB: I think that was a mistake made a long time ago, or as you call it a wrong turn, that again having introduced separation between various things outwardly we then, not knowing better, people kept on doing.
 
K: Kept on going.
 
DB: Not out of ill will - but simply not knowing better.
 
K: Quite, quite, quite.
 
DB: Not seeing what they are doing.
 
K: Is that the origin of all this?
 
DB: Well it is close. I am not sure that it is the origin. What do you feel?
 
K: I am inclined to observe that it is the... the origin is that, the ego, the 'me', the 'I'.
 
DB: Yes, well, you could say, but...
 
K: If there is no ego there is no problem, there is no conflict, there is no time - time in the sense of becoming, not becoming, being and not being.
 
DB: But it might be that we would still slip into whatever it was that made us make the ego in the first place.
 
K: Is it - wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Is it energy being so vast, limitless, has been condensed or narrowed down in the mind, and the brain itself has become narrowed down because it couldn't contain all this enormous energy - you are following what I am saying?
 
DB: Yes.
 
K: And therefore gradually narrowed down to 'me', to the 'I'.
 
DB: I don't quite follow that. I mean I understand that that is what happened but I don't quite see all the steps. If you say energy was very broad, very big, and the brain you say it can't handle it, or it decided it couldn't handle it?
 
K: It couldn't handle it.
 
DB: But if it can't handle it, then it seems there is no way out then?
 
K: No, no, Just a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Slowly. I just want to enquire, push into it a little bit.
Why has the brain, with all the thought and so on, created this sense of 'me', 'I'? Why? Outwardly, the family - you follow? - outwardly it had to be that way.
 
DB: Well, we needed a certain sense of identity to function.
 
K: Yes, to function. To function, to have a trade, function.
 
DB: To know where you belong.
 
K: Yes, and so on. And is that the movement that has brought that in? The movement of the outer, where I had to identify - the family, the house and so on, gradually became the 'me'?
 
DB: Well I think that this energy you are talking about also entered into it.
 
K: Yes, I want to lead up to it slowly. I have got an idea inside I'll tell you a little later.
 
http://www.jkrishnamurti.com/krishnamurti-teachings/view-text.php?tid=1367&chid=1066
 
full complilation
 
the ending of time
http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/audio.php?page=2&t=The%20Ending%20of%20Time