[MD] The Word is Not the Thing

[skutvik at online.no]

Andre & Co.

20 Sep. you wrote:

> I have tried to catch up with lots of stuff (not only doing with the
> MD) and responded to a few...and am tired now, but this is no excuse.

We suffer from the illusion that our posts are read. Marsha and Ron 
destroyed the morale here with their twittering and endless links to 
something they had read.

> The 'cryptic' message (I remember now) is that I wanted to try to get
> across that a s/o analysis complete with meaning ( thus SOM) is still
> steeped and indeed (appears to me) to be dominated by the social
> level.

Well, that's the point, each level struggles to "act as if" it's free and 
independent from its parent level but is constantly reminded of its 
roots - intellect no exception - and if we focus on this we see social 
aspects to intellect all over the place.

> Goethe's 'Faust", Pirsig's prospect of a brilliant career as a micro
> biologist at some company selling out truth for material gain and
> social status...intellect in the service of...! And because it does not
> recognise morality it does it willingly...what else is intellectual
> gain for? 

Exactly, and yet intellect's morale survives. If a scientist is caught 
manipulating an experiment to secure a grant .. f.ex ... he is done for, 
so you see OBJECTIVITY over SUBJECTIVITY value goes on 
unscathed where the 4th. level is established. In social value steeped 
cultures however (what intellect calls) corruption is the rule, no one 
would respect an austere head of state.    

> In this sense the MoQ can't be 'bought' . It serves non other than
> itself, in its persuit of Dynamic Quality. In this sense the MoQ
> incorporates all the levels, as it should do, and reading what I have
> just written , and following my own logic, should be a part of itself.
> Pirsig has mentioned the Code of Art only once...from then on it was
> simply DQ..

Well put, there is a quasi level-like relationship between Intellect and 
the MOQ, the MOQ is constantly assaulted by intellect that - as is all 
levels' wont - don't want anything above itself, and we see how dear 
the "...an intellectual pattern" tenet is to most participants. In reality 
the MOQ "incorporates all the levels". Yes, Pirsig hinted to something 
beyond intellect and THAT contradicts his "MOQ an intellectual 
pattern"   

> Is the MoQ part of intellect or should we simply say that the MoQ is
> part of the MoQ??? And the MoQ is Dq/Sq...all the levels. I am not
> sure but I think I have just solved my own problem.

You have solved THE problem. The MOQ is a new DQ/SQ reality, in 
its time SOM created its S/O reality, that also created the notion of all 
"theories" being subjective mind patterns - ideas - which is the 
hardest block to overcome for an understanding of the MOQ. But you 
have made it across the hurdle .....and deserves some sleep
  
Bodvar