[MD] The Word is Not the Thing

[ARLO J BENSINGER JR]

[Arlo previously]
Language is fundamentally recursive, and hence paradox laden. 

[Platt]
Then that statement is fundamentally recursive and paradox laden, i.e.,
profoundly incoherent.

[Arlo]
Of course it is. Rocket science!!

[Platt]
If anyone wonders why the MOQ remains academically stillborn this admission
from Pirsig is probably the reason. Postmodern thinking (It's a fact there are
no facts.)

[Arlo]
Actually, the very fact that it IS postmodern (a "contradiction in terms", a
"logical absurdity") is what is hindering it in an academy still, often, glued
to the idea that paradox and recursion are frightful things. Oddly, this has
been your demeanor all along.

"Quality is undefinable" is, in fact, a definition. More rocket science!! And
while Zen Masters and postmodern thinkers get this easily, for some reason it
appears to be beyond you.

Your halfway right, the "postmodern thinker" would say "its a fact there are no
fact", and then actually understand the self-reflexive paradox such recursion
causes. 

He, as Pirsig, would see it as a limit to language, but one that when dealt
with playfully accepts these limitations. Indeed, making such a "gotcha" to a
"postmodern thinker" would likely only produce laughter. I can imagine
Hofstadter actually pitying you for thinking such a kid's "revelation" gives
you any substance. 

In any event, you are making headway now. "All this is just an analogy" is a
statement that when examined self-reflexively produces paradox. While I do
believe Pirsig believed his audience would get this without belaboring the
point, it is good to see you finally appearing to understand. 

[Platt]
There he goes again -- "always present" -- incomplete and recursive, or so he
says, contradicting himself. 

[Arlo]
And then you go and say something like this.

I can hear the collective thoughts of great postmodern minds like Pirsig and
Hofstadter going "well... duh...." Of course the statement that "language is
always paradoxical" when read self-reflectively produces paradox (viva la
recursion!). That is not "contradicting", it is merely the limit of language...
indeed, of ANY self-reflexive symbolic system (thank you, Mr. Hofstadter!)... 

Oh well... I tried... Again, you appear to only be motivated by a need to
attack me. What's the matter, did Limbaugh get your nads all bunjeed up today?
Go ahead, Arlo will provide the catharsis!