[MD] The Word is Not the Thing

[X Acto]

Platt,
 Logical consistancy is sort of redundant.
Logic is consistancy

and I think Pirsig states that HOW one understands
consistancy is THE problem that is faced.
 but if you want to keep dry humping the burning effigy of
arlo like some rabid horny dog, be my guest.

get it boy!  get it!!

sick em




----- Original Message ----
From: "plattholden at gmail.com" <plattholden at gmail.com>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:53:34 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Word is Not the Thing

Yes, we all know Arlo possesses an understanding beyond reason, like 
Zen Masters and other "postmodern thinkers." I least he tells us so. But, 
apparently Pirsig isn't quite so enchanted with Arlo's irrational, 
incoherent world where it's true there is no truth. In Lila Pirsig spelled 
out his position so even an intellectual could understand: "The tests of 
truth are logical consistency, agreement with experience, and economy 
of explanation."  The relevant key word: "logical." 





  
        



On 22 Sep 2009 at 1:11, ARLO J BENSINGER JR wrote:

> [Platt]
> You proved my point with this incoherent post. Hofstadter firmly believes in
> the "oops" theory of creation so I'm not surprised you idolize him. 
> 
> [Arlo]
> Oh yes, I idolize him. How remarkably astute of you.
> 
> Hofstadter, like Pirsig, and other great postmodern thinkers and Zen Masters
> have no trouble accepting the recursive, paradoxical self-reflexivity of
> language. Sorry this continues to escape you, I thought you showed some real
> signs of understanding in your last post, but then you dropped the ball. Pirsig
> is weeping.
> 
> "All this is just an analogy". A great postmodern statement made by someone who
> expected, unfortunately, his audience to be able to understand that applying
> the statement to itself produces... gasp!... paradox.
> 
> Indeed, it was self-reflexivity that led young Pirsig away from conventional
> thinking and into the postmodern realm (applying scientic method to the
> scientific method).
> 
> So while Pirsig and Hofstadter, Zen masters and postmodern thinkers, all see
> funny statements like "its a fact there are no facts" and aren't troubled by
> what you, humorously, find to be some relevant "gotcha". Its as if the world
> stood still for you since Zeno.
> 
> [Platt]
> And to compare yourself to Zen Masters -- what more is there to say? 
> 
> [Arlo]
> Horrible rhetoric, Platt. Is this really the best you can do? Yes, I compare
> myself to Zen Masters. I am ego. I am a god. You caught me. How very astute!
> 
> What I said...
> 
> [Arlo previously]
> "Quality is undefinable" is, in fact, a definition. More rocket science!! And
> while Zen Masters and postmodern thinkers get this easily, for some reason it
> appears to be beyond you.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Since both Zen masters and postmodern thinkers do understand the inherent
> paradox in language, to the point where for them its a kid's game to spot it,
> only you seem to be always standing on the outside looking in. Zen masters, via
> Koans, have long addressed the very incompleteness of language. 
> 
> Saying "its a fact there are no facts" to a Zen master would get you a smile,
> maybe some pity if s/he felt you truly were perplexed by that. Pirsig and other
> postmodern thinkers have also, for quite some time, had little trouble with
> incompleteness, self-reflexive paradox and "contradiction" created by ANY
> symbolic system. 
> 
> Again, when Pirsig wrote "All this is just an analogy", postmodern thinkers and
> Zen masters nodded. Only you seem to think "catching" him in some linguistic
> contradiction represents "incoherence". Sad for you, really. 
> 
> If you actually want to pervert that into "Arlo compares himself to a Zen
> master", knock yourself out. You don't need my help to look any more foolish.
> 
> [Platt]
> Anyway, your paranoia about Limbaugh and talk radio always manages to surface
> when you get unstable. So it's time to move on.  
> 
> [Arlo]
> Well, you weren't addressing, nor have offered, any substantive point
> whatsoever. Its pretty obvious you were just out to attack me. You seem to get
> that way when some talk-radio buffoon has your nads in a wad about them evil
> acerdimics, so I figured this was just another opportunity for you to attack
> one of those ivory-tower elitist pinhead acedimics that are ruining the world
> (along with newspapers, of course).
> 
> 
> 
> 
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