[MD] Fwd: Boromir's Journey

[John Carl]

Depends on what you mean by faith.

There is a scene in ZMM ...  Phaedrus just sitting, meditating on Quality,
losing his personality.  Losing everything but this one thing he clings to,
the Quality that he never betrayed, which  comes to him at last.

Righteousness by Faith - right there in all its glory.

All the MoQ was built upon this foundation.  If he had sold out, if he had
abandoned his faith in the Good, Lila would never have been written, the MoQ
would never have been formed.

Where was the hard empirical evidence pointing to at the time?  That this
was a crazy man with crazy beliefs.  But in the end, it was the quality of
his faith in Quality that pulled him through.



On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 7:30 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

>
> "The MOQ does not rest on faith. In the MOQ faith is very low quality
> stuff,
> a willingness to believe falsehoods."
>   (RMP,Copleston)
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of X Acto
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:02 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Fwd: Boromir's Journey
>
> How can Steves question not be concerned with Quality?
>
> he did not mention that one required faith to realize quality
>
>
> he asked us what we thought "having faith" meant.
>
> rephrased in terms of your quote
>
> why desire betterness?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:43:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [MD] Fwd: Boromir's Journey
>
>
>
> "For quality, no faith is required because there is no way you can
> disbelieve that there is such a thing as quality. You cannot conceive of or
> live in a world in which nothing is better than anything else."
>   (RMP,Copleston)
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of X Acto
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:30 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Fwd: Boromir's Journey
>
> what is the concern of the MoQ?
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:15:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [MD] Fwd: Boromir's Journey
>
>
> Steve,
>
> I don't know how experience requires faith, but your concern doesn't seem
> to
> be the MoQ. Okay.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Steven
> Peterson
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:58 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Fwd: Boromir's Journey
>
> Hi Marsha,
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 7:27 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> >
> > But Steve, that is what I'm saying.  I do not understand what it is you
> are
> > trying to get at.  I asked 'Faith in what?', but that was the wrong
> > questions.  I'm truly puzzled.
>
> What I am getting at is to try to rehabilitate the word "faith" and
> rescue it from the clutches of dogmatic religion similar to the way
> that Pirsig tried to rehabilitate "gumption."
>
> You seem to be saying that there is nothing left of faith once we take
> away dogmatic belief. I'm hoping that there is something left and
> trying to explore what that could be. The responses so far have been
> helpful to me in that regard.
>
> Best,
> Steve
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