[MD] Uncertainty

[plattholden at gmail.com]

On 24 Sep 2009 at 20:09, Arlo Bensinger wrote:

> [Platt]
> Seems you believe existence depends on human perception, i.e., the 
> moon is not there when nobody looks. Shades of 18th century Bishop Berkeley.
> 
> [Arlo]
> I have no idea how you got this from what I said. I said simply, 
> "human perception will not be around forever". How on earth can I, a 
> human, perceive what will or will not be when there is no human perception?

I take it then that your believe existence depends on human perception. 

> [Platt]
> I find it hard to get past profound incoherence.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Yeah, Pirsig can seem this way for some. "All this is just an 
> analogy"... very "profound" indeed, "incoherent"? Not so much for me...

"Everything is an analogy" is incoherent for me when I'm told I have 
cancer or some other life-threatening disease. I live in a reality where if 
Penn State player breaks a leg in a football game, it's reality, not an 
analogy. My reality is also one where death is permanent and real. But, 
to each his own.   

> [Platt]
> Is it possible to conceptualize in something other than symbols?
> 
> [Arlo]
> That's redundant. Conceptualization is the manipulation/creation of symbols.

Your answer then is a permanent, "No."

> [Platt]
> Between us another permanent disagreement. (Pun intended)
> 
> [Arlo]
> So you believe time IS permanent? I'm reminded of a passage from that 
> profoundly incoherent author's book, ZMM, about thinking about how 
> "the law of gravity" existed before the cosmos, before anything, just 
> floating there, with nothing to apply itself to because there was 
> nothing... just "time", sitting there all by its lonesome...

So I take it you think time began with the first human and will end with 
the last? Is that your position?