[MD] Uncertainty

[ARLO J BENSINGER JR]

[Platt]
Yes, but his existence doesn't depend on my perception or conception of him.
There's a difference in meaning between the phrases "I'm thinking of UTOE the
cat" and "UTOE the cat."  The words are not the thing.  

[Arlo]
"UTOE the cat" is YOUR perceptual awareness of particular patterns you
experience. You seem to be echoing a very strong S/O understanding here, Platt.

[Platt]
There's the reality of analogies (the words broken leg) and the reality of
things (pain). Or, menu/food, pointing finger/moon. Thus, the assertion,  "All
is analogy" is only half right.

[Arlo]
Well, when Pirsig said this, he was obviously referring to conceptualizations
of experience. So yes, there is "direct, pre-intellectual, pre-conceptual,
mystical awareness" and then the "analogies" of symbolic representae of this
experience.

[Platt]
Death is the end of life, what I would call First-Order Reality.

[Arlo]
Disagree, Platt. "Death" is an analogy we use to understand the absence of
patterns.  Many cultural analogies saw this not as an "end", but as a
"transition". Your statement "is the end of life" is one, particular analogy
"man" has come up with to understand this absence. 

[Platt]
And it's permanent even when defined as absence. 

[Arlo]
There's that "mathematical description of randomness" again. As an "absence" it
does not have attributes. Its division by zero. Its like asking "how bright is
absolute darkness?" Since darkness is the "absence of light", trying to apply
"brightness" to it is nonsensical.

[Platt]
Length is permanent in a three-dimensional world as is height and depth.

[Arlo]
They are "stable", it would seem to our awareness, but they are not permanent.
They are relative. And you seem to here be echoing an incredibly strong S/O
position. 

[Platt]
It's in the mail.  

[Arlo]
That's what they all say...