[MD] Uncertainty

[plattholden at gmail.com]

On 25 Sep 2009 at 23:23, ARLO J BENSINGER JR wrote:

> [Platt]
> Yes, but his existence doesn't depend on my perception or conception of him.
> There's a difference in meaning between the phrases "I'm thinking of UTOE the
> cat" and "UTOE the cat."  The words are not the thing.  
> 
> [Arlo]
> "UTOE the cat" is YOUR perceptual awareness of particular patterns you
> experience. You seem to be echoing a very strong S/O understanding here, Platt.
> 
> [Platt]
> There's the reality of analogies (the words broken leg) and the reality of
> things (pain). Or, menu/food, pointing finger/moon. Thus, the assertion,  "All
> is analogy" is only half right.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Well, when Pirsig said this, he was obviously referring to conceptualizations
> of experience. So yes, there is "direct, pre-intellectual, pre-conceptual,
> mystical awareness" and then the "analogies" of symbolic representae of this
> experience.
> 
> [Platt]
> Death is the end of life, what I would call First-Order Reality.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Disagree, Platt. "Death" is an analogy we use to understand the absence of
> patterns.  Many cultural analogies saw this not as an "end", but as a
> "transition". Your statement "is the end of life" is one, particular analogy
> "man" has come up with to understand this absence. 
> 
> [Platt]
> And it's permanent even when defined as absence. 
> 
> [Arlo]
> There's that "mathematical description of randomness" again. As an "absence" it
> does not have attributes. Its division by zero. Its like asking "how bright is
> absolute darkness?" Since darkness is the "absence of light", trying to apply
> "brightness" to it is nonsensical.
> 
> [Platt]
> Length is permanent in a three-dimensional world as is height and depth.
> 
> [Arlo]
> They are "stable", it would seem to our awareness, but they are not permanent.
> They are relative. And you seem to here be echoing an incredibly strong S/O
> position. 
> 
> [Platt]
> It's in the mail.  
> 
> [Arlo]
> That's what they all say...

I have nothing new to offer. Thanks for the conversation.