[MD] a view

[Arlo Bensinger]

[Bo]
Because the 4th. level is both the springboard and the barrier to the MOQ.

[Arlo]
In the same way the social level is springboard and barrier to 
intellect? Or the biological level is springboard and barrier to 
social patterns?

[Bo]
Existence (I avoid the personal here) has to reach intellect to reach 
the MOQ, yet as no level knows its Q-position intellect-as-SOM 
resists being degraded to a mere static Q-level with all means.

[Arlo]
So for YOU (and the rest of the MOQ-enlightened), since you know 
intellect's Q-position, do YOU have to kill all intellectual patterns 
for morality to be served? Or once one is MOQ-enlightened, does this 
"killing" cease to be necessary?

The way I read what you say above, is that the "killing" of 
intellectual patterns is the process of placing them into their 
"Q-positions". Once done, we needn't keep "killing" them, do we? Once 
we are "enlightened" as to intellect's "Q-position", we can serve 
morality by championing intellect, correct?

[Bo]
I don't know your position of late Arlo but I guess you are part of 
the "keep the MOQ an intellectual pattern" movement and as long as 
that rules SOM rules.

[Arlo]
My position has never changed. I agree with Pirsig. And your 
statement that this means "SOM rules" has no substance. Its kind of 
like your ongoing "dismissal stick" you use to denigrate those who 
disagree with you, nothing more. "Oh, you agree with Pirsig? Well 
then you're SOM." Whatever.

[Bo]
Ditto regarding biology which was "killed" after social value started 
to use biology for its own purpose.

[Arlo]
How was biology "killed", unless you think its a metaphor for "tamed" 
or "controlled". In that case it changes the Pirsig quote Marsha 
provided significantly.

While sustaining biological and social patterns
Tame/Control all intellectual patterns.
Tame/Control them completely
And then follow Dynamic Quality
And morality will be served.

You'd agree with this then? The goal would be to place intellectual 
patterns in service of what you propose to be the next higher level, 
the MOQ. The same way society should dominate biology, and intellect 
should dominate society, you think the MOQ should dominate intellect?

[Bo]
In the a social-focussed culture like the Muslim the islamist 
movement can use (devour) the biology of the suicide bombers and 
"pilots" to forward their cause. (just one example)

[Arlo]
This really makes no sense. I mean, are you now suggesting that 
society NOT dominate biology? Or are you suggesting that Western 
cultures do not "devour" biology to "forward their cause"? And what 
does this have, at all, to do with the conversation at hand? Just an 
excuse to talk politics?

[Bo]
Pirsig hopefully reflects the Quality position.

[Arlo]
Well, you didn't answer my question. In LILA, when discussing the 
hippie movement, Pirsig claims its morality derived from its being 
against BOTH society AND intellect. Considering Marsha's quote (about 
preserving social patterns and "killing" intellectual ones), would 
you say these reflect different positions? Or are they compatible?

But since you do seem to agree that "intellect" is a barrier to "MOQ 
enlightenement", and as such intellectual patterns should be 
"killed", do you have any insight into how this should be achieved? 
Yoga? Meditation? Drugs? How did YOU kill your intellectual patterns, 
Bo, so that you could become one of the enlightened? Pirsig describes 
his experiences with peyote as a prime catalyst for his 
"enlightenment". Or is it as simple as willfully ignoring intellect 
as something "bad"?