[MD] A fly in the MOQ ointment

[Steven Peterson]

Hi Mary,

On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Mary <marysonthego at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
> Yes, Pirsig certainly did say that, but that is not the important thing
> about the levels.  He also says this further along in the same quote.
> [quote]
> In a value-centered Metaphysics of Quality the four sets of static patterns
> are not isolated into separate compartments of mind and matter.  Matter is
> just a name for certain inorganic value patterns.  Biological patterns,
> social patterns, and intellectual patterns are supported by this pattern of
> matter but are independent of it.  They have rules and laws of their own
> that are not derivable from the rules or laws of substance.  This is not the
> customary way of thinking, but, when you stop to think about it you wonder
> how you ever got conned into thinking otherwise.  What, after all, is the
> likelihood that an atom possesses within its own structure enough
> information to build the city of New York?


Steve:
I don't see any support in the above for your claim that a new type of
pattern of value only becomes a new level when we can start to
recognize new purposes that were not previously recognizable.

Mary:
> If you are trying to tell me that the 4 Levels are nothing more than
> groupings of similar things, then the power of the MoQ is diluted.  The
> levels start to take on an arbitrariness that defeats the whole concept of
> Levels.  Might as well introduce a taxonomic classification system.

Steve:
The levels ARE groupings of similar things, but not "nothing more
than."  They are part of an evolutionary hierarchy of value patterns.


Mary:
They
> are not called "Static Patterns of VALUE" for nothing.  What is valued by
> one level is not valued by another, and that is what makes the levels differ
> from each other.


Steve:
This is a Bo-ism and not Pirsig's MOQ. You are assigning agency to the
levels. The levels themselves don't value. The levels are labels for
collections of patterns of valuation.

Best,
Steve