[MD] MOQ would seems to imply that above human intelligence computers

[Horse]

You're confusing computers with robots (or possibly cyborgs). There's a 
big difference and computers are ubiquitous.
They're in your car, your microwave, your camera, your phone, probably 
your oven and your fridge and hundreds of other places. Many of them are 
using Neural network and/or fuzzy logic techniques and are able to learn.
You also seem to be anthropomorphising them - why would they need 
religions, governments armies etc.?
Computer programs are communicating with each other all the time, 
without the intervention of humans. There are programs that can alter 
their own structures and pass these changes onto other programs in real 
time - lateral evolution. They're called viruses and they are most 
definitely analogous to biological viruses and have gone from extremely 
simple structures to highly complex forms and are getting more complex 
all the time. And these programs are fairly simple in comparison to the 
hugely complex structures that run things like, f.ex. the Internet.
The point here is that they are not based on carbon - they're based on 
silicon - and they already have a biological level which is independent 
of their inorganic level. How many millions of years did it take for 
carbon-based creatures to get to that level of complexity and yet these 
have gotten there in a few tens of years.
I really doubt that we'll be aware of programs becoming social level 
entities because they'll be completely different from what we've 
experienced so far. Different Social level values to anything we know. I 
doubt it'll take that long though.

Horse

On 15/04/2010 21:58, plattholden at gmail.com wrote:
> Would you care to speculate what the computer social level might be
> like? Would it have religion?  What sort of government would it have?
> Who would control its army? Where would it put criminals? What system
> would it use to create and exchange goods and services? The more
> specifics you can furnish, the better.
>
> Thanks,
> Platt
>
> On 15 Apr 2010 at 18:36, Horse wrote:
>
>    
>> You're missing the point Platt - if they are intelligent and thus have
>> an intellectual level - they would have a social level. Pirsig's point
>> about ants and bees etc. isn't relevant. If computers ever did become
>> intelligent it would be through a different but analogous path.
>>
>> On 15/04/2010 17:21, plattholden at gmail.com wrote:
>>      
>>> This is the notion that any old group constitutes a social level, a notion
>>> flatly denied by Pirsig:
>>>
>>> "One can also call ants and bees "social" insects, but for purposes of
>>> precision in the MOQ social patterns should be  defined as human and
>>> subjective.  Unlike cells and bees and ants they cannot be detected with
>>> an objective scientific instrument.  For example there is no objective
>>> scientific instrument that can distinguish between a king and commoner,
>>> because the difference is  social." (LC, Note 49)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Platt
>>>
>>>
>>> On 15 Apr 2010 at 17:10, Horse wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>>> But they wouldn't be destroying their own social level - they'd be
>>>> destroying ours. If they were intelligent and significantly different to
>>>> us their social level would remain intact. Why would they worry?
>>>>
>>>> On 15/04/2010 16:35, Platt Holden wrote:
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>> It would be just like intelligent computers to attain such a level of
>>>>> arrogance that they would believe they would be better off by eliminating
>>>>> the social level on which their existence depends.
>>>>> Reminds me of some intellectuals I know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Platt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Tudor Boloni<savetherich at gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>> would be morally correct to kill us if they feel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a) they will be able to contribute more ideas and intellectual patterns
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> human can achieve
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> b) they determine humans are eating up too many resources and produce too
>>>>>> few intellectual patterns for the expense
>>>>>>
>>>>>> am i missing something?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> tudor
>>>>>>              
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