[MD] MOQ would seems to imply that above human intelligence computers

[skutvik at online.no]

Platt, Horse, All.  

15 Apr.

Platt responded to Horse's below:

> Would you care to speculate what the computer social level might be
> like? Would it have religion?  What sort of government would it have?
> Who would control its army? Where would it put criminals? What system
> would it use to create and exchange goods and services? The more
> specifics you can furnish, the better.

I can only applaud. The social evolution weren't just organisms starting 
to congregate, rather that a notion of EXISTENCE  - of life and death - 
dawned and resulted in the myriad of ideas ABOUT existence 
animism, various forms of afterlife, ancestors, stages of beyond ...etc. 
what evolved into complex mythologies and finally into mono-theist 
religions, the toughest social cement there is. So Platt's about religions 
and governments and criminals are most relevant, There can't be 
other kinds of social levels whatever the social organisms are.        

Horse:
> > You're missing the point Platt - if they are intelligent and thus
> > have an intellectual level - they would have a social level.
> > Pirsig's point about ants and bees etc. isn't relevant. If computers
> > ever did become intelligent it would be through a different but
> > analogous path.

"If they (computers) are intelligent and thus have an intellectual level 
..." is confusing intelligence and the intellectual level. Intelligence is the 
ability to learn from experience and is a long-drawn and fuzzy process, 
the proverbial amoeba will react to acids, but it will certainly not learn 
anything, while at some more complex neural stage the experiment 
will be stored and if some like situation occurs it will trigger an 
appropriate behavior, the bigger the brain the greater ability to 
readjust, reaching an apex with the human biology. 

But the levels are no such process, they are quality jumps and the 
social level had to be established and evolved to a a dynamic stage  
before intellect could arise. The MOQ is THE quality jump, this time 
out of intellect-as-SOM and the hardest to make. For those intellect-
marooned the MOQ will be regarded as just more intellect.

Bodvar           









> > 
> > On 15/04/2010 17:21, plattholden at gmail.com wrote:
> > > This is the notion that any old group constitutes a social level,
> > > a notion flatly denied by Pirsig:
> > >
> > > "One can also call ants and bees "social" insects, but for
> > > purposes of precision in the MOQ social patterns should be 
> > > defined as human and subjective.  Unlike cells and bees and ants
> > > they cannot be detected with an objective scientific instrument. 
> > > For example there is no objective scientific instrument that can
> > > distinguish between a king and commoner, because the difference is
> > >  social." (LC, Note 49)
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Platt
> > >
> > >
> > > On 15 Apr 2010 at 17:10, Horse wrote:
> > >
> > >    
> > >> But they wouldn't be destroying their own social level - they'd
> > >> be destroying ours. If they were intelligent and significantly
> > >> different to us their social level would remain intact. Why would
> > >> they worry?
> > >>
> > >> On 15/04/2010 16:35, Platt Holden wrote:
> > >>      
> > >>> It would be just like intelligent computers to attain such a
> > >>> level of arrogance that they would believe they would be better
> > >>> off by eliminating the social level on which their existence
> > >>> depends. Reminds me of some intellectuals I know.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>> Platt
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Tudor
> > >>> Boloni<savetherich at gmail.com>   wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>        
> > >>>> would be morally correct to kill us if they feel
> > >>>>
> > >>>> a) they will be able to contribute more ideas and intellectual
> > >>>> patterns than human can achieve
> > >>>>
> > >>>> and
> > >>>>
> > >>>> b) they determine humans are eating up too many resources and
> > >>>> produce too few intellectual patterns for the expense
> > >>>>
> > >>>> am i missing something?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> tudor
> 
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