[MD] Intellect? Never.

[skutvik at online.no]

Hi Jon. Welcome to the discussion.

22 Apr.:

Jon to Andre,
> You see what freedom of thought, association, and tolerance your moq
> leads to! You can't stand, or deal with intellectually a challenge
> from a free thinking individual who has not yet drunk the cool-aid.

Andre does not represent the MOQ (rather the weak(minded) 
interpretation) so don't take him too seriously. 
 
> Of course, it is blasphemy, I have challenged your god! Perhaps it is
> you that needs to broaden your reading, then you might be able to
> respond on an intellectual, rather than emotional level.

The emotional level (the social)  has its place in the system as has the 
rational level (intellect) but the MOQ can't be understood from any of 
these. 
  
> And one more time for the record, we have this freedom of speech and
> tolerance of ALL religious beliefs in the West, precisely because of
> its grounding in the Christian faith. And your moq based
> discrimination, and bigotry, makes my case better than I could in
> ten-thousand words.

This was an issue that intrigued me greatly before the MOQ revealed 
the solution: The quandary was: Is modernity (the individual freedoms 
and rights) that characterizes the Western culture a result of 
Christendom or because Christendom was brought under control of 
modernity? Now the MOQ explanation: As SOM (the intellectual level) 
emerged in Greece its influence spread by the Romans to the Jewish 
region and a sensitive antenna - Jesus -  picked up the new signals of 
individual freedom, rights & worth, and as such his teachings were the 
first attack on the Semitic type religion (social value's) that Islam 
continued after the "diaspora" of the Jews. Thus you are right, 
freedoms ARE grounded in Christendom, but this is so because 
Christendom was/is part of intellect's struggle to get on top of social 
value. As you know did Aristotle become a Church Father and more 
SOM was imposed for instance the soul/body dichotomy. Compared to 
Islam the difference is conspicuous, IT has no soul to be saved - only 
rules to obey - thus it can't be modernized without losing its influence , 
so when modernization threatens some "assassinating" group 
emerges that terrorizes it back to the past. It happened  in Medieval 
times when Greek intellectual science and knowledge survived in 
Muslim world. There emerged the Assassin Order that killed the 
sultans and kalifs who harbored the secular infidels, Even the much 
adored Saladin - who beat the crusaders - were on their death list. And 
it happened in the twentieth century when the very same "western 
values" threatened the Muslim countries. F.ex. Egypt's secular Nasser 
was on the death list of the "Brotherhood" (the first Al Qaeda). This 
more than anything shows what is at stake: Intellect is the highest 
static good, but without fetters - as SOM - it is a bleak prospect. As the 
MOQ is realized the picture changes dramatically, but the 
"intellectualists" of this site works overtime to prevent that. 

Bodvar