[MD] A fly in the MOQ ointment

Wed Apr 28 18:08:12 PDT 2010

and the Bolshevists were anti intellectual!! like you!!

----- Original Message ----
From: X Acto <xacto at rocketmail.com>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 8:52:19 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] A fly in the MOQ ointment

Again Platt that was the Bolshevists!!!!

do alittle history reading..please..you sound like a dottering old curmudgeon
makin shit up to justify his prejudices.

----- Original Message ----
From: "plattholden at gmail.com" <plattholden at gmail.com>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Sent: Wed, April 28, 2010 9:07:10 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] A fly in the MOQ ointment

In the 20th century, atheistic "intellectual" Marxist socialists like those on 
the radical left today slaughtered over 100 million disposable human 
beings for the "greater good." Intellectuals not only "screwed everything 
up" but routinely butchered opponents.  

On 27 Apr 2010 at 21:20, david buchanan wrote:

> 
> Jon said to dmb:
> ... How do you define conservatives or theists as anti-intellectual, unless there is some absolute intellectual claim you have. If so, show it or prove it. That sounds like a biased faith based statement to me. What's intellectually sound about it just because its in your intellect?
> 
> dmb says:
> 
> Like I said, Pirsig recommends Campbell and "I think a lot can be learned about the difference between the social and intellectual levels by looking at the historical examples of the 20th century conflict between them". You'll find quite a few of these examples in chapters 22 and 24 of Lila. 
> 
> "The gigantic power of socialism and fascism, which have overwhelmed this century, is explained by a conflict of levels of evolution. This conflict explains the driving force behind Hitler not as an insane search for power but as an all-consuming glorification of social authority and hatred of intellectualism. His anti-semitism was fueled by anti-intellectualism. His hatred of communists was fueled by anti-intellectualism. His exaltation of the German volk was fueled by it. His fanatic persecution of any kind of intellectual freedom was driven by it. In the United States the economic and social upheaval was not so great as in Europe, but FDR and the New Deal, nevertheless, became the center of a lesser storm between social and intellectual forces. ...Now intellectuals were in a position to give orders to America's finest and oldest and wealthiest social groups. 'That man,' as the old aristocrats sometimes called Roosevelt, was turning the whole USA
over to foreign radicals,
  '
>  eggheads', 'Commies' and the like. He was a 'traitor to his class'."
> 
> Back when Pirsig was teaching in Bozeman, the Governor of Montana was a big fan of an extremely right-wing group called "The John Birch Society". He had Pirsig put on list of subversive people to be watched. These Birchers were so extreme that William F. Buckley denounced them in 1962. They've been out of the conservative mainstream for nearly 50 years but they're back. They hosted the last Republican convention. Add the Birchers to the tea-baggers, the birthers, the growth of right wing militia groups and the over-heated rhetoric of the Republican leadership in the Senate and you can see a new storm brewing. I think Pirsig's diagnosis is pretty easy to apply to current events because the same underlying social-intellectual conflict is still going on. Anti-intellectualism wears different clothes at different times but it's the same guy underneath. Guess it's pretty obvious that I don't like that guy.
> 
> This is not "some absolute intellectual claim". I seriously doubt there is such a thing. But it is a powerful explanatory tool and it's an important part of the hierarchical structure of Pirsig's MOQ.                         
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