[MD] MOQ Recursion

[skutvik at online.no]

Arlo, Mary, Matt, All.

4 Aug. 

Arlo had asked.
> If it is not an inorganic or biological or social or intellectual
> pattern of value, what is it?

"It" is probably the MOQ. 

And Mary had replied
> A pattern of values is exactly that - a pattern of values.

Which ought to be plain enough. 

But Arlo returns.
> Okay, but you aren't answering my question at all. Is the "inorganic
> level" itself an inorganic, biological, social or intellectual "pattern
> of values"? Of course its a "pattern of values", but what kind is it?
> None of the above? If not, then what kind? 

The inorganic level is just what it says: a level. What kind of nonsense 
is this? 

Mary:
> That is the intellectual level way to describe something which really
> cannot be properly described at all by the Intellectual Level.

The MOQ is out of SOM - of intellect - and had to use intellect's own 
tools to escape, so Mary is just right, it's just the "embers" of intellect 
to ask like Arlo does what the various levels' or patterns' "nature" is.   

Arlo again:
> So then its a new level, above intellect, that "decribes" what the
> "inorganic level" itself is? 

The MOQ is the DQ/SQ metaphysics. Full stop!  

Mary:
> The whole problem here is that the MoQ cannot be completely understood
> in terms of the Intellectual Level.  The Intellectual Level is
> inadequate to describe that of which it is but a part.

And that's just right. The intellectual level is sub-set of a sub-set inside 
the MOQ and can't see the totality, This has been the problem since 
Pirsig declared the impossible "MOQ and intellectual pattern"  

Arlo:
> So the "inorganic level" is "pattern of value" of a new level above
> intellect, is that what you are saying? And what is inadequate about
> the way "intellect" would describe the "inorganic level"? Do you think
> Pirsig's description of "the inorganic level" is beyond intellectual
> description?

The  MOQ is no "new level above intellect" it is the metaphysical 
system that CREATED the Q-levels including "intellect" and is no 
pattern of the former SOM's mind, this is the source of all this 
nonsense. Intellect does not describe the Q-inorganic LEVEL it 
describes its own material world!!!    

Matt enters:
> If that is right, what remains, then, are questions about "adequacy":
> what is this inadequacy?  Arlo, I take it, doesn't see it.

And I leave.

Bodvar