[MD] MOQ Recursion

[skutvik at online.no]

Magnus

9 Aug. 

I had said to DMB:
> >I know you just write this to tease me, but you - like Arlo - ignore
> >that the intellectual level cant contain the system that has created
> >and contains the levels. A little logic won't hurt.

Magnus comments:
> That was hilarious. First you claim that a level can't refer to itself.
> Then we're supposed to use the intellectual level to prove that it
> couldn't have created itself? Are you collecting jokes for your standup
> comedy show at the next philosophy convention? 

"Refer to itself" is not the same as "containing itself"? To you Q-
intellect is language-conveyed thinking and language can of course 
refer to language. But that is not MOQ's 4th level. Pirsig makes a big 
point of the container logic in LILA 

    This problem of trying to describe value in terms of substance 
    has been the problem of a smaller container trying to contain a 
    larger one. Value is not a subspecies of substance. Substance 
    is a subspecies of value. When you reverse the containment 
    process and define substance in terms of value the mystery 
    disappears: substance is a 'stable pattern of inorganic values.' 
    The problem then disappears. The world of objects and the 
    world of values are unified.  

"Description in terms of substance" = SOM =  the intellectual level, 
cannot contain the MOQ which is "description in terms of Quality". Get 
it?    

Your next point:

> Then we're supposed to use the intellectual level to prove that it
> couldn't have created itself?

Shows the same fallacy, namely that "using the intellectual level" to 
you spells using our language-conveyed intelligence, and with such a 
grand mistake your are lost MOQ-wise. The correct thing is that we 
use our intelligence - now in MOQ's service - to show that Q-intellect is 
MOQ's creation. Will you never snap out of SOM? 

Bodvar