[MD] Quality and Chaos

[John Carl]

Krimel:

Having read your clarification of what you mean by chaos, I'm gonna rethink
my criticism of your position.   But I  do still think there is something
left out when you equate DQ and uncertainty.

 [Krimel]
> So like Dave you don't get what this means? Chaos is not a state of
> complete
> disorder. It is more like the field of possibility. Order emerges from it.
> It is neither orderly nor disorderly. It is both. It is the uncertainty the
> surrounds us at all times. It is the problem we are designed to solve.
>
> [John]
> Since you share mine and hunter's fondness for the odd apt scriptural
> quote,
>
> "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for
> light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for
> bitter!
> -Isaiah 5:20
>
> [Krimel]
> Oh, you mean like this from the Lord of Hosts, the chaotic Yahweh:
>
> "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I
> the
> LORD do all these things."
> - Isaiah 45:7
>
> Or as if to drive home the point:
>
> "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,"
> declares the LORD."
> - Isaiah 55:8
>
> The Jewish approach to life in a world of chaos is submission to the will
> of
> a chaotic God. We are to draw comfort from the randomness around us because
> it is the manifestation of God's will and:
>
> "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your
> ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."
> - Isaiah 55:9
>
> While Christian seem to take perverse delight in submission in the lame
> confidence that the "God of Love" has something "better" in mind for us;
> the
> Jews were a bit more realistic. There is an old Jewish saying that God
> lives
> in heaven because if he lived on earth his neighbors would break his
> windows.
>
>


John:

Ok, I liked that. I actually did "lol".   And those other quotes went
through my mind at times when I was responding to your point.

I'm very interested in the book of Job, which is completely different than
the whole rest of the Bible.  For one, the book is cut off from the whole
rest of the books, which deal with the seed of Abraham.  Job ends with
mention of his three daughters, but we never find anything about their
descendants.  For another, nobody knows who wrote Job.  For another, it
seems to be the oldest book.  The first book of the Bible isn't genesis,
it's Job.  In fact, I like to say the Bible is composed of the old testament
(Job) and the new (the whole rest of it)

Job seems like an ancestor of Buddha, to me.  But I don't mean that in any
literal sense, but rather the feel I get from a good man who finds out that
being good doesn't mean you get rewarded for it.

Getting back to chaos as the generator of Quality, this reason this doesn't
make sense to me because I think of chaos as containing nothing which
generates anything.  It's so random that it can't be generative.  Saying
that "something arises" out of chaos is nothing good about chaos, but rather
it says something good about the "something arising".

DQ is that force which generates the arising.

Take care Krimel,

John