[MD] MOQ/BOC

[John Carl]

Ok, Arlo, Dan, Magnus,

Now that I've reached the end of this thread, so far, I have to ask a
question of Dan.  The fact that I didn't know this quote from Pirsig, that
Arlo shared, does that mean I need to delve deeper into the MoQ?  To
memorize all the words?

Or does the fact that I knew the truth of what Pirsig meant, by
contemplating my own experience, mean that I've got it?  That "delving
deeply" doesn't mean getting lots and lots of words under one's belt.

See, that's the problem of authority - it cripples the mind.  You rely on it
to do your thinking, when you should be thinking for yourself.  And this is
a good example to illustrate the point I was making to Arlo in a different
thread, that Pirsig has published enough to make his ideas clear and
understandable, and now it is our turn, to grow his ideas, to flesh them
out, to correct any small inconsistencies and realize a higher Quality
metaphysics than he first formulated.

That's what makes the discussion grow.  Clinging to a static orthodoxy is
what kills intellectual patterning.

OH!!  Yeah, now it comes to me.  And this ties in with another thread and
Krimel's discussion of Christianity.  Krimel seems to think that
Christianity has lost all it's value, and most on this list agree with him.
 AND so do I.  Christ's message had a lot of value, when it was confronting
the Jewish orthodoxy of his day, and grew for a long time.  But today, it's
so stultified by it's religious adherents who argue back and forth all day
long, "that's not what he meant" that it's a dead philosophy.

Didn't Nietzche make the point that since the central message of Christ was
to deny self, to die to self, that a Christian's first duty then is to die
to the part of himself that follows Christ?  I think that was exactly right,
and my reading of the end of the story - in Revelation where Christ shows
what's gonna happen to the development of his church say in the end "because
you are neither hot nor cold, I'm gonna vomit you out of my mouth."   That
in the end, all religion fails.

 But the MoQ need not fail.  It's a process, not an artifact.


John



On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:58 AM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR <ajb102 at psu.edu> wrote:

> [Dan]
> Thank you for the reply. I take this of course from the Robert Pirsig
> letter to
> Paul Turner. To be honest, parts of this have troubled me and I welcome an
> opportunity to perhaps get into it more deeply.
>
> [Arlo]
> I went back and pulled this quote and it does appear to me you got the
> social-intellectual thing reversed. Here is what Pirsig said.
>
> "Just as every biological pattern is also inorganic, but not all inorganic
> patterns are biological; and just as every social level is also biological,
> although not all biological patterns are social; so every intellectual
> pattern
> is social although not all social patterns are intellectual."
>
> Your analogy had the opposite, "every social pattern is an intellectual
> pattern
> but not all intellectual patterns are social."
>
>
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