[MD] MOQ/BOC

[Magnus Berg]

Hi John

> John:  "Learned" means taken in from authority, like drinking mother's milk.

Do you have some other word in mind to mean "learned by own experience", 
like self-taught?

>> John:
>>
>>   I think we need a useful
>>> distinction between the reactiveness to environment that all life has to
>>> some degree, with memory, time perception, etc. that I'd term intelligent,
>>> and intellect which is the realization of self/other in  manipuable
>>> abstract
>>> terms.
>>>
>>
>>
> Magnus:
>
>> I'm not sure we can make such a distinction with the MoQ, and I'm also not
>> sure I think it's very important either.
>>
>> I think Bo sees that difference as crucial, but it's actually just a
>> gradual difference in the brain that makes it possible to see the self as a
>> part in the reality in which the animal lives. Also, isn't that one of the
>> milestones of a baby's development? To be able to see itself as a part of
>> the reality in which it exists. Not sure that's important here, but it seems
>> to me it indicates it's a quite fuzzy borderline and nothing like a discrete
>> border the levels are supposed to be.
>
>
> John:
>
> Well, I believe Pirsig talks about "the intelligence of these cells".  I
> think somebody posted that recently.  I think the distinction of
> intelligence as being the dividing line between level 1 and level 2 - that
> all life has a form of intelligence, and intellect dividing level three and
> level 4, is a simple, useful and handy split showing dynamic shifts in the
> evolutionary continuum.

Yes, I can agree it's tempting to use intelligence in those cases as 
well, but I'm not sure it's wise to use that word too much. Especially 
since it mostly refers to life's survival of the fittest, only in 
different forms. I mean, of course it's smart/intelligent to survive, 
because the alternative is to die.

>> And I could also imagine splitting up "intelligent" into learned vs.
>> instinctive behaviour, and then we have three divisions, further hinting
>> that the scale is somewhat fuzzy.
>>
>>
>
> John:
>
> Yeah?  That also fits.  That's the line between level 2 and level 3.  So in
> that case, we'd say level 2 starts with instinctive reactionism, level 3
> with intelligence and self-awareness, and level 4 with intellect and self
> reflection.
>
> I like it.
>
> You've just added great value to my day, Magnus.  Thanks.  I believe I'm
> gonna adopt this.

I'm glad your day improved, not quite the way I intended though. :-P

	Magnus