[MD] Social level for humans only

[Krimel]

Horse,
Ever since "Origin of Species" people have been trying to find something,
anything that makes humans unique from the rest of God's creation, tool use,
language, opposable thumb... Music and art? Maybe, except birds sing and so
to whales. Many species have "dances" built into their mating rituals. With
regards to art I am hard pressed to think of a species that produces art but
I am also hard pressed to see how we would recognize it if they did. Another
species' esthetics would in all likelihood be so different from ours, they
might be singing, dancing and creating art all around us and we wouldn't
notice anymore than other species recognize these capacities in us.

Another side of this argument would be that even if we were to insist that
humans have some characteristics that are unique in the animal kingdom, that
in itself would not make us unique. You can look at any species and find
that it has some trait that no other species has and this "special" trait
makes them "special;" elephant trunks, giraffe necks, cheetah speed etc.

My concern is that this attempt to carve humans out from the rest of nature,
is a byproduct of resistance to the historical dethronement of man as the
"capstone" of creation and the center of God's creative effort. 

But on a more practical note social behavior is an important strategy used
throughout nature and our use of it is not so very different from the use
other species put it to, survival. Social behavior or the emphasis on
cooperation over competition give the lie to the idea that "survival of the
fittest" means: nature writ in tooth and claw. "Fitness" does not mean the
biggest and baddest.

Krimel
----------------------------------------------------------------

  Hi Krim

Not sure I agree here. I think there are human attributes that aren't 
manifest in other species that are totally unique to humans and this 
sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom.
I'm talking about music and art. As far as I'm aware no other species on 
the planet has either music or art and, as I said in an earlier post 
some time back, I think this is linked with our intellect and the 
intellectual level. Which in turn are linked to our language ability.
It's one of the reasons that I also agree with David T that intellect, 
and the intellectual level, goes back thousands of years because the 
ability to produce art (or music) is so dependent on having an 
intellectual level. You only have to look at the Lascaux cave paintings 
to realise that intellect was alive and well at least 17000 years ago.

I agree that we are a product of natural selection and that what we do 
is natural (I haven't got much time for the supposed 'supernatural') but 
I don't think it's arrogance to assume that there is something radically 
different about humans that allows us to produce music and art.

Cheers


Horse


On 18/08/2010 04:46, Krimel wrote:
> [Krimel]
> Odd, it seems arrogant to me to assume that much of anything about us is
> radically different than what we see in other species. We are a product of
> natural selection and the same rules apply to us as to every other
species.
> Comparing our social manifestations to that of other species, looking at
how
> they arise from similar conditions and serve similar functions seems, what
> the word I am looking for... natural.
>
> On the other hand assuming that we are unique seems to me, what's that
other
> word... supernatural.
>

-- 

"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production
deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
- Frank Zappa

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