[MD] Speed of Lighting, Roar of thunder...

[Krimel]

> [Krimel]
> ... so let's deconstruct...
> _____________________________________________
>>> FRANK!
>>> Perspectives, worlds, real worlds, being, becoming are human concepts
>>> ( patterns ). Stepping out of the human world is a human concept (
>>> pattern ).No one gets outta here alive, bubba. Not getting outta here
>>> alive is a human concept ( pattern ).
>
> [Krimel]
> True dat!
> Life without concepts is life on life support.
> For those who object, I recommend advanced directives.
> If you want to stay plugged in, you are going to have be engaged.
> The decision isn't between concept and no-concept...
> It's a matter of which concepts.
>
> So yeah, decision, concept and no-concept are concepts. Either grab one or
> STFU.
> ______________________________________________
>
> First: As I recall Frank is Ron (Xacto) in ultra-cool sarcastic mode.
> (See his awesome post flushing post. OMG that was good!)

[Magnus]
Not so cool on my part, cause it's a bloody waste of time.

[Krimel]
If your time is so precious why not try any of the thousands of listserves
where nobody posts for months at a time. They might be more to your liking.
If we keep censoring and censuring the prolific this one could end up like
that too.

> [Krimel]
> So the proposer of the Kulpian Illusion points out that whatever the "real
> world" is; we live, not with "it," but with our conceptions of "it."

[Magnus]
If you by "we live" only mean the intellectual part of life, then yes. 
But if you include eating, farting, running and fucking, then it comes 
up pretty darned short.

[Krimel]
I have gone on and on about the impotence of consciousness. Seriously, I
have. You can look it up. Repeating what I have said a dozen times would be
a waste of MY time.

[Magus]
Well, POV is perhaps not a good acronym to use here. If I see it, I 
think Pattern of Value, not Point of View.

Also, I thought the Point of View we should be using here is the MoQ. 
Then we may have different opinions about what that MoQ is.

[Krimel]
Wow, another chance to rant about the inappropriate use of terminology...
I think I'll past. As one concerned with each passing second draining the
life out of living, I am sure you will understand.

[Magnus]
As I said above, I disagree. I wouldn't *want* a life without concepts, 
but it would certainly be more than what you think.

I'm pretty sure many animals doesn't conceptualize much, but it seems 
they live a pretty good life anyway.

[Krimel]
I mentioned somewhere earlier today:
"...'tis better to be a live dog than a dead Lion..."
But seriously, I don't imagine it's all that much "better."

> [Krimel]
> I think that actually was the point of Pirsig's example.
> The levels do buttkiss to improve upon the notion.

[Magnus]
And as I've said, I think they can do quite a bit more than that.

[Krimel]
I can see that beating dead horses or perhaps dead lions, hold more appeal
for you than it does for me. 
So be it. 

> [Krimel]
> Because people have been cutting themselves on those tools for 10 years.
> I'd rather be on life support that continue that tradition.

[Magnus]
So, I'm the only one with a good enough toolbox.

[Krimel]
Or you are bleeding to death and don't know it.

> [Krimel]
> I don't tell handymen they are fools for over complicating to problem. But
> that is partly because, the way the Squirt is designed, I have cut myself
> with it way too many times.

[Magnus]
Yes, yes, yes. I've heard that before. You gave up. You're a quitter. 
Nothing more than that.

But just because you gave up doesn't mean everyone else has to. Have you 
*proven* that it's impossible to make a working toolbox? Have you even 
looked at other boxes and shown that they don't work? No, you just took 
the one spelled out for in Lila and at the first sign of crumbling, you 
tossed it away and started bitching about its shortcomings.

[Krimel]
Does it sound to you like I have given up?

I just don't think your particular project would be worthwhile or
interesting for me to pursue. After all I have my own agenda, right?

> [Krimel]
> At present I love the Squirt.
> In the past I loved the Juice.
> I choose, moment to moment, which tool works for the tasks at hand.
> At the level of tools I have many lovers.

[Magnus]
Sure, that might work for fixing broken computers, but we're only 
talking about one context here, and it's the universe.

[Krimel]
Martially speaking I am devoutly monogamous. 	

But when it comes to tools, I am a shameless philanderer.

But now that you mention it; if there were only one context, I might only
need one tool.