[MD] Thus spoke Lila

[118]

Hi Marsha,
Can you appreciate the sun on your face without thinking there is sun
on your face?  I think you can.  You find it pleasing in an
intellectual way without any subject object.  If you want to place
this in another level, then you are not using your brain for such a
thing which seems hard to imagine (literally of course, you are always
using your brain in these posts).
Mark

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 11:23 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> I disagree that _intellectual static patterns of value_ are other
> than subject-object oriented.  But I'm sure I'm over my restricted
> two posts per day so I'll not say more...
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
> On Dec 7, 2010, at 2:07 PM, 118 wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I missed a lot of the discourse with Bo as I was on sabbatical from
>> this forum.  However I did review some of the posts during that time,
>> not nearly all of them of course.  I would have to agree with Horse
>> here.  If that makes me disagree with Bo, I don't know.
>>
>> MOQ seems to be expressed in these posts as SOM, that is the typical
>> way of conversing, as I understand the concept. This occurs because
>> conversation is a subject talking to an object.  While in conversation
>> we use subjects and objects but MOQ rises from a deeper level which
>> does not contain SOM, as well.  Experience and all that, all of which
>> are parts of the intellectual level, fully integrated.  All these
>> things come together along with some symbol manipulation to provide a
>> personal world view to others.  To make the intellectual level SOM
>> would be to confine it to simple symbol manipulation and I don't think
>> that is appropriate.  SOM is just the final form prior to expressing
>> it to others.
>>
>> Now, it could be said that it is language all the way down
>> (digital/analogue processing), but it certainly is not SOM language.
>> Sudden insight (which is intellectual) comes from a mix, of which
>> experience is one part.  While I am reading, I am not engaged in SOM,
>> I am experiencing through it.  There is no SOM in listening to Wagner,
>> yet it provides insight.  If Wagner is not intellectual, then he is a
>> dilettante and not a creator.
>>
>> Just to be disagreeable, I will also say that the intellect is dynamic
>> quality in action, not one step removed as W. James may have said.
>>
>> Don't know if this makes Bo wrong.  He might even agree with this for
>> all I know.
>>
>> In memory of Bo,
>> Mark
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Horse <horse at darkstar.uk.net> wrote:
>>> But the MoQ isn't the Intellectual level. Nor is SOM.
>>> So the Intellectual level can contain both.
>>> Box A (the Intellectual Level) contains Box B (MoQ) and Box C (SOM) - and
>>> Box D and E and F..............
>>> None of these boxes contain Quality but both MoQ and SOM as Intellectual
>>> patterns of Value are contained within the larger box of the Intellectual
>>> level. They are separate patterns.
>>> So Bo's wrong.
>>>
>>> Horse
>>>
>>> (To be continued tomorrow - probably!)
>>>
>>> On 07/12/2010 15:48, Platt Holden wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Again Pirsig:
>>>>
>>>> "You can't have box 'A' (the MOQ) contain within itself box 'B'
>>>> (intellectual level) which in turn contains box 'A.' (the MOQ). That's
>>>> whacko.   (Parens added.)
>>>>
>>>> Bo's SOL is right.
>>>>
>>>> (Under the rules this is my final post on the subject permitted today.)
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production
>>> deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
>>> — Frank Zappa
>>>
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