[MD] Bottom-up creation doesn't make any sense

[Arlo Bensinger]

[John]
Bottom-up creation doesn't make any sense.  Take the founders of 
America - as a society.  The social patterns created were a 
reflection of intellectual ideas.

[Arlo]
On the contrary, I'd say top-down creation makes no sense. So here's 
these intellectual ideas, predating social and biological and 
inorganic patterns, just floating there giving birth to the cosmos.

I think what's confusing you here is the idea that bottom-up creation 
entails no feedback. Of course it does. Of course once intellectual 
patterns emerged from their social foundations they influenced these 
social patterns (and to many extents biological patterns as well!). 
Social patterns once emerged from their biological origins played a 
substantial role in altering biological evolution. Hell, the 
advertising/distribution/production network of soda has sent diabetes 
cases soaring, especially in lower socio-economic areas. But this 
does not mean that biological patterns are "created" by social 
patterns, only that they are manipulated by them. Biological patterns 
precede social patterns by Millenia.