[MD] Bo’s Western Buddhism (was Intellect's Symposium)

[skutvik at online.no]

Greetings Platt
 
4 Feb. : you said to me:

> Your phrase "Q-context" suggests to me that all talk about reality
> suffers from the same misunderstanding as when a passage excerpted
> from a speech or article is said to represent an author's view but
> really isn't because the passage was "taken out of context." 

> Often you have used the metaphor of an ocean where the peaks and
> valleys of the waves represent the mind/matter separation but both
> occur within the reality "context" of the Quality ocean. 

Right, but it was more to visualize the dynamic/static dualism in 
general: Inorganic value an enormous long ocean swell, biology a 
lesser, but still gigantic wave on top of that ... with the intellectual wave 
on top. However still smaller ripples can form on intellect's "surface", 
yet, making mind/matter such a ripple evokes the impression of the  
M/M being an intellectual PATTERN, but it's just another variety of the 
S/O which is intellect itself. I'm hysterical afraid of "heresy"  here. I 
don't think you intended any its just me  ;-) 

> Likewise I'm
> reminded of the metaphor of the fish who when asked, "How do you like
> being in the ocean?" replied, "What ocean?" We are as the fish,
> largely ignorant of the Quality ocean of our existence. Pirsig hints
> at the same metaphor in the following from Lila (30):

Yes, this metaphor is perfect..

> "The south wind was stronger here and it cooled him. It was steady,
> like a trade wind. Nothing interfered with its flow toward him over
> the huge ocean. 'Vast emptiness and nothing sacred.' If ever there was
> a visible concrete metaphor for Dynamic Quality this was it."
> 
> As you say, the intellectual level -- whose evolution you have nicely
> traced from appearance/reality to illusory/real to
> subjective/objective to mind/matter -- exists within the Q-context. To
> use intellect's rhetorical ingenuity to describe that which brings
> intellect into being is like the proverbial tongue trying to taste
> itself.

Matt did it too -  inadvertently - for now he tries to eel out of it. 
 
> It is through art and beauty that we directly experience the Quality
> that otherwise remains a faint intuition as we go about the daily
> business of fending off the forces of the inorganic, biological and
> social levels with the armaments of intellect. But at day's end, the
> Quality context makes itself known as we settle down at the hearth
> with a cup of hot buttered rum.   

> Warm regards,

Agree and thanks, also for your warmth, it's a cold spell over Norway 
and most of Europe right now, has been so for a long time. It's been 
cold over much of the USA too and recently I heard that "global 
warming" has been sustituted by "climate changes" (the cold too) and 
that's just what we used to call varying weather. 

Bodvar





.     




> Platt     
> 
> 
> 
> On 4 Feb 2010 at 21:02, skutvik at online.no wrote:
> 
> > Hi Khoo
> > 
> > 3 Feb.
> > 
> > Bo before:
> > > > How I envisage the MOQ as a "western buddhism" I have told many
> > > > times No particular enlightenment is required except
> > > > understanding the MOQ, but that seems to be the needle eye for
> > > > the camels.
> > 
> > Khoo:
> > > But how would it work if there is no enlightenment necessary?  Is
> > > there a methodology to achieve the understanding of the
> > > Metaphysics of Quality ? How would you guide the enquirer/camels
> > > through the needle into a proper understanding of the Metaphysics
> > > of Quality? Is there an "aha" moment ? Is there a need for a
> > > Guide? Or is it a Do-it-Yourself kind of process ? 
> > 
> > Good (perhaps sarcastic?) questions. Yes i have wondered why 
> > Pirsig's ideas in ZAMM hit me so hard, why I in an flash saw the
> > point, but have found that only one so tormented by (what I knew as)
> > the mind/matter abyss as I were  would recognize the immense relief
> > in the prospect  of my tormentor wasn't reality itself but a 
> > "metaphysics" having arrived at some point in time, and will go away
> > the moment the MOQ takes hold. Well, it has taken hold of me so I am
> > free, those poor buggers who don't know they are SOM captives can't
> > be helped.   
> > 
> > At first in this discussion I thought this was why all people came
> > to this site, but have been forced to realize that most are
> > chatterbugs not having the least interest, wish or need for escaping
> > SOM except seeing their posts "published", some professional
> > "twitters" partaking on several lists simultaneously. But never mind
> > the greatest disappointment was Pirsig himself launching  a travesty
> > of the ZAMM epiphany of  SOM being Quality's creation ... CALLED
> > INTELLECT. This is the hub, kernel,crux of it all. About 3 levels
> > before the 4t. - intellectual - is perfect, but that one must be SOM
> > or the MOQ is just more SOM!      
> > 
> > And I thought that you - of Oriental origin at least - knew that to
> > achieve enlightenment the "intellect" must be transcended. The
> > silliest of discussers make a great point of me insisting on the MOQ
> > being something beyond the intellectual level, but it the
> > perspective where the "Q-context  is seen. Like the Buddha being the
> > stance from where Buddhism context is seen. To say that the MOQ is
> > an intellectual pattern prevents its release from SOM. OK, all this
> > is what I said in "my string of reasoning", your objecting to it and
> > me trying to bring it across again - will only result in more turns
> > of the screw and I am a bit worn.     
> > 
> > Bodvar
> > 
> 
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