[MD] Mao & The MoQ

[skutvik at online.no]

Hi Dave T.

15 Feb.:

Bo before   
> > I use the "Q-intellect" term to  "distinguishing between
> > objective and subjective" - AKA Reason.

> > 1) Snap out of the S/O Metaphysics, i.e.the notion that the
> > fundamental split is between subject and object.
 
> But Bo here's the problem. When we boil these two statements down to
> their essence we read:
 
> 1. Intellect, human "reason", works solely by distinguishing between
> [object]ive and [subject]ive.

I'll return to your objection but first: "Works by ....". What a strange way 
of putting it. Intellect  IS the VALUE of distinguishing between what's 
personal and what is impersonal. In the Nordic Myth thunder & 
lightning was the result of some angry godhead banging his hammer 
around, with the coming of the intellectual level this emotional 
explanation was replaced by the natural explanation. 

But I affirm: Intellect is the subject/object distinction.  

> 2. There is no fundamental split between subject and object.

I affirm this too. Before the MOQ all levels regarded themselves as 
fundamental. I know that speaking about the inorganic and biological 
as "regarding" anything sounds odd, but the idea is that no level knows 
the level context, to them existence IS themselves. This was the case 
with the intellectual level as well: There was the objective world "out 
there" and the subject "in here" that tried to unravel its workings. 
Please I know all the nuances and objections better than any, but this 
is its essence.      

> So what you are claiming is humans reason past, present, and future is
> based on an fundamental split that does not exist.......

Human reason sounds like "intelligence", my contention is that the 
INTELLECTUAL LEVEL is the  S/O split, nothing about human or 
intelligence please. 

Well, enter the budding moq that had the fundamentalism of the S/O 
split as its "target". It was identified and isolated as SOM - a "system" 
having arrived in historical time and had established itself so 
fundamentally that no one were able to see beyond it. Then the final 
MOQ with is new DQ/SQ fundament and the four static levels where 
SOM is the 4th. One of MOQ's tenets is the non-fundamentalism of 
the static leves; they are "out of" their parents and when pursued far 
enough the parent level shows. So right the fundamentalism of the 
S/O split is dissolved, as is the fundamentalism of the social, biological 
and inorganic levels too, but those can wait.       

> So we are forever trapped to use a method that is irrational. You're
> starting to convince me. 

A bit sarcastic, but MOQ point is that the above non-fundamentalism 
of the static levels - when examined the parent pops up. - is countered 
by their absolute MORALITY. In LILA Pirsig gives examples of social 
value popping up in intellectual affairs as - for instance - scientistes 
tempted to manipulate experiments as to match their theory and bring 
them fame and fortune, but regardless, if these social values are 
spotted by intellect's immune system the poor bugger is thrown out of 
the Church of Reason. This goes for all static VALUE levels, if some 
traces of the lower value is spotted  its immune system strikes it down. 
The fact that lower level's "virus" can fool the higher systems doe not 
alter the stict MORALITY of it is all..         

You Dave seem to keep your door ajar for the MOQ in contrast to the 
other Dave who has closed it and works inside the Church of Reason 
with a corrupted MOQ to secure his fame and fortune. 

Bodvar