[MD] A fly in the MOQ ointment

[plattholden at gmail.com]

Hi Dave,

You raise some excellent questions. I don't pretend to have the 
definitive answers but do have some thoughts, noted below: 

On 18 Feb 2010 at 7:37, David Thomas wrote:

> Platt 
> > The other day I happened across what appears to be a contradiction in
> > the MOQ as presented in Lila. In chapter 7 Pirsig says, "The world is
> > primarily a moral order" and supports his contention by describing all the
> > moral choices toward betterness that were made during the course of
> > evolution. But then in chapter 11 he wrote: "He let himself get caught in
> > the kind of 'picking and choosing' situation that Zen avoids and now he
> > was stuck."

Dave
> For me, like most here I guess and RMP prior to ZaMM for that matter, all
> our information comes "book learn'n" which Zen doesn't put much stock in.
> 
> Most recently I've read James Austin's "Zen and the Brain" series of three
> books by a neurologist and brain researcher who has practiced Zen for 30
> years and studied it affects on the brain. When he first started Zen in
> Japan his Zen master told him it would be most difficult for him to make
> much progress because scientists with highly trained intellects have the
> most difficulty shutting their "thinking" down. This proved to be true in 30
> years of lay practice he has only reached the lower level altered mental
> states, the "first steps" of Zen for a brief moment 2 or 3 times.

Platt
Most of us are familiar with various "altered mental states" whether 
smitten with love, struck by great beauty, or suspended in a kind of 
hypnotic state. IMO such states are similar to the Zen state when the 
constant chattering of the mind ceases, the ego disappears, and one 
becomes immersed in the the Absolute, i.e, Dynamic Quality. (I can't 
vouch that such states are precisely the same as the Zen state  since I 
have never been a resident in a Zen monastery or taught by a Zen 
master.) Maslow called such states "peak experiences."

Dave
> But that was enough to convince him that the whole enchilada is possible.
> His research on monks with years of experience has indicated that they can
> indeed alter their brain and other physiological patterns significantly
> during meditation. And those with the longest and most advanced progress do
> have permanent changes in brain activity compared to non practicing
> subjects. For me the question is still open is, Just because with years of
> practice one can alter the way the brain normally works how is it that this
> altered state can be claimed to be in touch with "reality" as it really is?

Platt
We divide reality for purposes of practical reasoning which is necessary 
for our survival. (We are not, like animals, born with instinctive survival 
skills or tools.) The simple division of friend/enemy begins at an early 
age. From there it expands until our reality becomes nothing but parts 
and pieces that we yoke into patterns of meaning, all for survival 
purposes. But on  reflection we realize that reality is all of a piece 
without divisions. Even though we appear to be separate from others we 
know are never apart. The world is with us, late and soon. It's my 
understanding that it is this unity with All, including the spiritual realm, 
that motivates Zen practices, a unity even we neophytes experience 
occasionally as described above.  

> > "In Zen there is reference to 'big self' and 'small self.' Small self is the
> > patterns. Big self is Dynamic Quality. (LC, note 29)

Dave  
> Zen seems to say that with practice one can achieve brief moments when DQ
> is directly perceived as if it was a stable pattern like normal reality and
> that this gives one great insight into "everything as it really is." And if
> you reach Buddha level this IS your normal reality. For the rest of us mere
> mortals we may with much self induced suffering get a taste now and again.
> Of the "small self" though Zen suggest one should bring back from these
> experiences something that I do not find a obvious place for in the MoQ.
> That is wisdom. Zen claims its' insight transcends intellect. The
> intellectual level seems to be all about knowledge, Where might wisdom as a
> stable pattern lie?

Platt
Well, the Absolute, the All, the Essence, the Being, the Big Self, or  
Dynamic Quality is necessarily without pattern because there is nothing 
beyond, outside or in between it. It's everything all at once. (Patterns 
require figures and grounds, sounds and silences, symbols and spaces, 
etc.)   

Such is today's gospel according to Platt, subject to change.

Regards,