[MD] A fly in the MOQ ointment

[X Acto]

This assembelage of statements ..


Bodvar:
Feelings! MOQ's purpose is to free itself from SOM-as-intellect and 
because intellect's great feat was to free existence from the social-
emotional level (over to intellect's rationality) the MOQ cannot return 
to emotional appeal, but must be as rational as its antagonist. 

Ron:
Ah, an appeal to a super rationality over one of value. 
Bodvar, I have asked for you to give examples of the function
of this superrationality in the past, but you never offered any
or any viable explaination of exactly how this super rationality advances the field
of mathematics or physics, again you have yet to offer anything.

indeed, the distinction of talking the talk verses walking the walk
takes on a great meaning in this regard.

Bodvar:

Buddhism does not speak about Quality, but my contention is that 
only in the MOQ retrospect do we understand Buddhism - at least did 
I - and see the likeness. What you experts are capable of ....alas! 


As said to Khoo I subscribe to all MOQ's tenets - read again M-O-Q!!! 
But when Pirsig starts on the MOQ as being inferior I wince and 
repeat the MOQ is the Quality! Just like there can't be any Buddha 
without Buddhism ... etc.  

Ron:
Talk about your misunderstandings!

Bodvar finally slaps down the guantlet:
This stems from a  "SOM as MOQ's intellectual level" thread (1998) 
and Platt's post (page 396 in Lila's Child) where he supports the SOL 
and concludes; "... I fully agree with Bo's insight that the SOM and the 
intellectual level are one and the same. To support it , to protect it, to 
avoid losing it and sinking back to "anything goes" irrationalism or a 
"because God says so" mentality ...and ends with saying "..To that 
end the MOQ is the best S/O answer I've found yet." 

Ron:
wow...where does this quote come from again? can anyone verify this?
it would be nice to read it in it's original context.

Bo:
I don't find myself saying that "the MOQ is the best S/O answer " but 
like above I maintain  that the MOQ must surpass SOM's rationality to 
escape it.  

Ron:
super rationality again. If Pirsig indeed thinks we need to abandon emotion
and adopt a super rationality...then he needs to address some huge glaring
holes in his philosophy...such as pragmatic use...for example.


Andre gets fed up:
> Of course you will deny, twist, stick to you static interpretation of the
> SOL/ Intellectual level (everything over the past 13 years appears to have
> revolved around this issue for you) but to show such disregard, such
> exalted position I find offensive. You do it your way and he does it his
> way but as far as I am concerned you two are the flies in the MoQ soup!
> (the ointment you have spoilt)

Bodvar:
I know your exasperated style, but has it passed you by that this 
discussion has been a slow drift from an intellectual level that no-one 
knew what was, towards the SOL. In the  PT letter Pirsig come - as 
said - within a hair's breadth of affirming it  ".. no use in speaking 
about an intellectual level before the Greeks..." and the Egyptians 
being pre-intellect level ... etc. Admittedly he threw in the 
"manipulation of symbols" definition, but this so many have scoffed at 
as simply a definition of language. The more I point to these glaring 
facts the angrier you all get. Not hat I mind it, but its quite hilarious.

Ron:
Yea it is pretty funny

Imean the whole thing of course.
















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