[MD] A fly in the MOQ ointment

[X Acto]

Platt:
> .... As I understand your position, the intellectual level is the level
> of subject-objects or SOM. 

Bo:
The intellectual level emerged as SOM in ZAMM and it was not 
subjects and objects falling down from the sky, but the Greeks who 
began to think independently of the old social context and through 
many stages arrived at the first recognizable SOM the notion of Truth 
veiled by what Appeared to be  true, but were illusions. Then the many 
dichotomies of what was true and what was illusory ...all this is known 
by us Pirsigeans. Exactly when the subject/object  dualism arrived I 
don't know, but at least after Descartes "things" became material 
objects and what observed them were mental subjects, and the 
paradoxes created by this fault line began to emerge ..... not to be 
fixed until Pirsig.          

Platt:
> So where in your interpretation would you put such non-SOM intellectual
> systems as computer languages and higher mathematics? In other words,
> how do you answer Pirsig's need to find a "home" for these
> "intellectual" inventions?  

Bo:
Calculation and language are not "intellectual inventions" but these 
fancy-sounding names surely are.  I treat non-S/O as non-intellectual 
patterns. Calculation is an intelligence-brain-related ability i.e. a 
biological pattern, animal show signs of intelligence and I guess some 
primates can calculate to a limited extent. Now, IMO the big human 
neo-cortex brain were the biological stepping stone to the social 
development so at this level - particularly after language - calculation 
methods advanced and (seven-league boots on) when we come to the 
Babylonians and Egyptians they used every calculation methods there 
are only they never calle it anything. With the Greeks and the 
intellectual level all these things were systematized into academical 
fields, theorems were worked out to show why/how all this worked 
...objectively seen. Just ask Ron he knows ;-). 

Ron:
So to get this straight, what defines the SOL interpretations intellectual level is:

1: Academic systemization

2: Atheism

we agreed previously on:

3: The belief "that the principles of mathematics are the principles of all things."

(but now it is called into question by your assertions on mathematics)
 
I would agree that your interpretation has it's greatest meaning of begining
and first principle of being in relation to Rene Descarte. In his
 "Passions of the Soul" and "The Description of the Human Body "
in particular to your s/o arguement as it applies to an atheistic approach.
 
It is remarkable how most of the influentual philosophers of this time
period are and continue to be today, mathematicians as Rene is.
(which supports #3 in my opinion)
 
This leaves #3 as the sole attribute of the distnction of SOM in your
opinion  The belief "that the principles of mathematics are the principles 
of all things." for to believe this is to forsake all explaination concerning Gods
and exhaults mathematical explainations over any other. Agree?
 

 








      


Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/