[MD] The Quality/MOQ meta-metaphysics

[Mary]

Hi John,

> Mary:
> 
>  Everything that has ever passed through your head or mine is 'me'
> > (or you) thinking ABOUT something.
> 
> 
> John:
> 
> Well, the thing is, in metaphysics we try and go a bit deeper than
> assuming
> "I" have a "me" when we're arguing about the primacy of subject/object
> thinking and basing the conclusion upon this tightly held assumption.
> And
> on deeper analysis, it turns out that this "thinking ABOUT" is actually
> the
> same thing as the "you" doing the thinking.  That split  is assumed in
> your
> formulation, but not  logically valid.
> 
> And you can stomp your pretty little foot and pout all you want, but
> that
> doesn't change the fact that this ME so evident to you, is nuthin' but
> pure
> social hypnosis.
> 
> 
[Mary Replies] 
We seem to have a failure to communicate?  The thinker is thinking about
things of their own construction.  Pretty much exactly the problem wouldn't
you say?  
> 
> [Mary]
> > Logic itself is entirely based in the
> > subject, the thinker, analyzing the object, the thing thought about.
> 
[John]
> Nah, there are more things under heaven and earth to be discussed, than
> we
> can even dream.
> 
> "The man of character lives at home without exercising his mind and
> performs
> actions without worry.... Appearing stupid, he goes about like one who
> has
> lost his way.  He has plenty of money to spend, but does not know where
> it
> comes from."
> 
> Chuang-tzu
> 
[Mary Replies] 
I didn't realize they had Republicans in Chaung-tzu's time.  

> [John]
> But if you wanna argue about it, as you seem to, I'll ask, how can the
> cortex observe and control the cortex?  

[Mary Replies] 
If you want to go down this path, I can reply that the cortex is the
hardware and it "knows not" what software is running upon it.

Your "self" that you're so sure
> about, is simply a complex of social information relayed back into the
> cortex - this is social misinformation when it pretends to be other
> than it
> is, when it pretends to be fundamental.  All it really is is an
> unconscious
> pretense that the organism contains a higher system than the cortex.
> 
> Hypnosis, in other words.
> 
[Mary Replies] 
Ummm.  Yeah, if you'd get away from the hardware metaphor, we'd be in
complete agreement.  Hardware defines the limits of processing potential,
but not the algorithms.  Hypnosis?  An excellent metaphor for SOM.   

> 
> [John]
> Does what not make sense?  Sorry.  I wasn't listening.
> 
[Mary Replies] 
Yeah, I have the same problem sometimes.
> 
> 

[John]
 I merely point
> out
> that life is creative and dominant of inorganic matter, society is
> creative
> and dominant of biological beings, ideas are creative and dominant of
> societies.  DQ is dominant and creative of ideas.  It seems so much
> more
> obvious than random particles chance upon life, etc.  That's what I'd
> call
> bizarre.
> 
[Mary Replies] 
Quality might be random, but randomness is not Quality.

> > [John]
> Best to you too Mary.  Nice avatar btw.  I like  nom de plumeweb a lot
> and
> hope you can keep  him going for a while.  I figure he must be yours
> cuz he
> seems too intelligent to be an actual male.  Priceless irony indeed.
> 
[Mary Replies] 
Cool.  Always wanted to assert my masculine side?

Best,
Mary